Legality of DVD novel collections?

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Four Lights, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Four Lights

    Four Lights Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    I've been a long time fan of trek on TV, but up until now I've never properly attempted to get into the novels.
    This however is something I thought I should make an attempt to rectify.

    Because from what I know of the current publications a lot of them are carrying forward developments from previous books, I thought I might be better off getting some of the older and smaller self contained titles to start me off gently. As a lot of those books are are now out of print, I decided a job lot on eBay might be the answer.

    During my searches though I came across this:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262798107605?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    Question: Is it actually legal to buy something like this? The blurb on the page seems to say it's OK, and the seller looks reputable.
    eBay haven't taken down the listing either....yet.

    If it is, it sounds too good to be true. Can someone advise me please?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  2. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    It is a back up of your books. You are only allowed to read the ones that you already have paper editions of. Its pretty much the same gray area legality as out of print gaming ROMS., especially 80s and 90s ones. You can't really buy them anymore; they technically might belong to someone, but no one is really caring enforcing or paying attention anymore.

    You as a buyer are totally in the clear. If you were to sell it, or reproduce it, or make it available for download, or something, then perhaps you could have legal issues.
     
  3. Idran

    Idran Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    It's not a backup of your books, and there's no grey area. You're allowed to do whatever you want to a book so long as you maintain ownership, but you're not allowed to distribute a copy (and exactly the same applies to ROMs, by the way). That's definitely infringing copyright.

    Of course, you wouldn't be violating the law by buying that, they would (the illegal act is distributing a copy, not receiving one). But it's still not a legal product, no.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  4. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Which is the gray area that I'm referring to - if you maintain ownership, then these copies are completely legal for your personal use.
     
  5. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Location:
    Lockdown
    Well, of course it does. :lol:

    Just because the person selling the item puts "THIS ITEM DOES NOT INFRINGE ANY COPYRIGHT" in big red letters, doesn't actually make it true. ;)

    (Well, unless copyright laws in the UK are vastly different than I'm used to.)

    If you're OK with ebooks anyway, you can get most of the back catalogue through legitimate means, but granted you're going to pay a lot more than six pounds.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  6. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    That would be someone trying to make £6 a pop selling something he has no right to.

    Basically, pirate ebooks.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  7. CaffeineAddict

    CaffeineAddict Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    I'd avoid it like the plague.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  8. Idran

    Idran Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Interestingly, they actually are, but not in a way that's relevant for this; while details vary, UK copyright law tends to be more restrictive than US on the whole. Their equivalent of fair use, "fair dealing", is an explicitly legislated list of allowed usages rather than a set of general principles to be applied by the courts. For a time, even ISPs caching data to improve access time was technically a violation of UK copyright law.

    In fact, copying things for archival purposes is actually not legal in the UK since that falls outside of fair dealing, which I didn't realize, so even that doesn't apply here @Phoenix219.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  9. Four Lights

    Four Lights Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    Thanks for the insights. Much appreciated.
     
  10. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    IIRC, it remains illegal in the UK to rip CDs to MP3 format, as an example.
     
    Paul Weaver likes this.
  11. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Location:
    The Republic of Ireland
    Well isn't that something!
     
  12. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    I really don't think the GNU can be used for this type of content, despite what the listing says. :wtf:

    The listing claims, "Your purchase will be delivered on DVD so you have a physical backup of your books ready to load onto your choice of reader." This is a nonsensical disclaimer to make it sound like it's an archival backup for people who already own the books... all 828 of them. :rolleyes:

    Kor
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  13. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Location:
    Lockdown
    And you can totally confirm before ordering that you *do* own all 828 of them... what with the listing not mentioning a single title and all... ;)
     
  14. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Also, does that claim of "all" just mean what was printed on paper, or does it also include E books that have not seen a physical printing, in which case this person would probably be using hacked, pirated copies of ebook files. So in this case I wouldn't even trust this.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Buying this product will not benefit the authors or S&S.

    Someone was maintaining a website/blog, a few years ago, in which new electronic copies of Trek novels were being uploaded every few days. I reported the site to Simon & Schuster and the blog vanished within days. It is definitely illegal to "buy" or gve away digital copies of Trek novels in this way. If you want eBook versions, pay for them individually through the correct channels and the authors will/may ultimately earn their royalty payment.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  16. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Location:
    The Republic of Ireland
    Nor does buying second hand books from either second hand book shops, Amazon market place or charity shops. Although the latter does help fund many a good cause.
     
  17. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Location:
    Jedman67
    The profit's been made and the royalties earned on the original sale. Reselling originals after you're done with it is fine. Copying the book and selling the copy would fall under the same category as pirating ebooks.
     
    JonnyQuest037 and Kor like this.
  18. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Location:
    The Republic of Ireland
    I'm working on the assumption that at somepoint the individual has paid for the ebooks and then made a copy because money would already have been generated for the original sale.
     
  19. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Location:
    Jedman67
    If you buy a "single copy" ebook and then resell it, you're fine. If you duplicate an ebook and sell it (or otherwise redistribute it without permission) that's pirating, no?
     
  20. Idran

    Idran Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    It's still up in the air whether you're fine or not; the question of how first-sale doctrine applies to electronic works isn't settled law yet. Especially given that most eBooks are technically licensed, not sold.