LCDR Hobson

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Trekboy1993, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Or Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans in general.
     
  2. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree that Nebulas (which are as much as 90% the size of a Galaxy-class) would rate a CAPT or at least a senior CMDR; according to navy.mil CMDRs and CAPTs may command bases on shore (the closest RW equivalent to a starbase) although this becomes less teniable as tensions with the Cardassians, Klingons and Dominion mount as the series goes on (ADM Ross or his predecessor really should have been installed no later than s4); I agree that a CAPT was overkill for the Defiant, but looking outside the USN, LCDRs are tasked as COs for crews as small as 20-25 if a degree of autonomy is desirable (the RANs' Fremantle and Armidale-class patrol boats for instance); again, I agree that Janeway's rank should have been CMDR (unless we suppose two ranks of CAPT), especially as her XOs were LCDRs.

    The Galaxy-class is typically assumed to have a crew of around 1,000 (roughly inline with the old Invincible-class light carriers of the Royal Navy) or the San Antonio-class LPDs, however this is not inconsistent with the idea of the CO being a CAPT (as CVNs often have at least three, if not four or five CAPTs embarked (CO, XO, CHENG, CAG, Flag COS), especially as Yesterday's Enterprise indicates that the Galaxy-class has a capacity of seven to eight thousand and Ensigns of Command suggests a short-term evac capacity of up to fifteen thousand. As noted above, CDR would be sufficient for Intrepids (and indeed the earlier Constitutions) and LCDRs for Defiants , Oberths and Sabres, though in all cases they could hold the title of "Captain" ("Skipper" or "CO" are also acceptable internationally if preferred).
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never thought that Piersall was the permanent commanding officer of the Prometheus, just that he happened to be the officer of the watch at the time that those bridge scenes took place.
     
  4. Trekboy1993

    Trekboy1993 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Just seems odd that EVERY Starship CO has been a Captain with the exception of Worf and Dax on The Defiant. I mean look at the Nova Class why do you need a Captain on a ship that small? It drives me crazy.
     
  5. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If we're going to be realistic, then Riker, even though the XO, should have been a captain in rank.

    Maybe having command of a Starship, that operates independently through space, requires at least the rank of captain. It could be Starfleet Protocol, or for legal reasons.

    We do see Starship COs that are higher in rank than captain, like the numerous Commodores and Admirals that command a single Starship.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The only Commodore we saw commanding a single ship was Decker. As for Admirals, the only time that sticks out to me is Riker in AGT. Maybe Admiral Ross commanding the Sao Paulo, but that was clearly just for the trip of taking the ship to DS9, in other words, temporary. Otherwise all Commodores or Admirals we've seen in command on ships were commanding task forces or fleets.
     
  7. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ... It starts with a "K"

    Also, Commodore Wesley commanded a Starship.
     
  8. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hobson's behavior demonstrates that he should not be a command track officer. Guy was a douche.
     
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  9. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Picard seeing the error of his ways and rightfully giving Data the command is favoritism then I think we have different definitions of that word. Watching that episode, it's pretty clear that Picard didn't want to give an android command of a ship, until Data makes him realize his error and he relents. That's not favoritism. Data's experience entitled him to have that command, android or not. Favoritism would have been Picard giving Data command right off the bat and one of the best ships.
     
  10. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yup. As Kirk once said, "leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for it on the bridge."
     
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  11. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    For the ease of TV audiences; the CO is "Captain" plain and simple. And if you have two captains, which is The Captain and which is NOT The Captain? Hence the XO must be something else; such as Commander.
    Even JAG which had to use real ranks made an effort to visibly demonstrate the differences between the "Skipper", "CAG" and occasionally, "Admiral".
     
  12. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Few posts here talk about how command structure works today, in the 24th century things might be a little or a lot different.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps he was, but understandable. Hobson had never served with an android before. Data's crewmates on the Enterprise were used to him, but Hobson couldn't be expected to know him like they do.

    Hobson apparently operated on the assumption that androids were emotionless robots who didn't care about anything. How was he supposed to know they weren't (at least Data wasn't), until he served with one? It took some time, but Hobson came around eventually.

    Me, I'm wondering why Hobson was so easily swayed by Data's "emotional outburst". Surely he would have realized that outburst was fake?
     
  14. Leviathan

    Leviathan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Data saves the ship, crew, Federation, and timelines a few dozen times. Hobson thinks he can command better and the ships shrink gets promoted ahead of him.

    Doesn't pay to be a Droid in the fleet...
     
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know, Data was the only Starfleet main cast of TNG who never got promoted... besides Picard, but that is understandable. Even Beverly got to be a captain, albeit in the anti-time future of the finale.

    Geordi and Worf, promoted twice.
     
  16. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wonder if Data should have been promoted to CMDR for parity with Riker (Head of CMD) and Crusher (Head of MED/SCI), especially as at least one of his reporting Senior Officers (The ChEng) was typically a LCDR as well.
     
  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Obviously you've never visited The Golden Girls forum.
     
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  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Troi could be promoted to Commander, and Data was already a bridge officer AND Second Officer of Starfleet's flagship that had over 1,000 people, he SHOULD be a Commander.

    And I believe it was an unfilmed scene for NEMESIS where Picard said to Riker he can take anyone to his new command except Data, who he felt earned being XO.

    (And I know he said it in "Peak Performance", which I think was a lift from it, anyway.)
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    If "starts with a K" means Kirk, than he never actually commanded a ship as an Admiral. Indeed, in TMP he had to take a demotion to Captain to command the Enterprise. True, he took command of the Enterprise in TWOK, but that was a temporary arrangement done at the request of Spock, the ship's actual Captain. Then Spock died and Kirk stayed in command to take the ship back to Earth.

    Commodore Wesley commanded a task force.
    Haven't you in the past argued that Ro needed to be "put in her place" just because she wanted to wear her earring? So someone who wants to wear jewelry of cultural significance in an organization which allows someone else to wear a twenty pound sash because if its cultural significance needs to be put in their place, but someone else who openly expresses bigoted opinions of his CO on the bridge is understandable?

    IMO, when it comes to Ro and Hobson, Hobson's the one who needs to be put in his place.
     
  20. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Yes but only three-fifths or so are under the carrier CO, the others are part of a separate command, the air wing, which has its own captain-grade CO. An additional hundred or so are in yet another command, the flag staff, that works for the admiral.

    Well, who knows what's realistic. Different arrangements can work equally well, it depends more on what the organization's needs are and how that effects where officers are needed in their careers. For hundreds of years it was standard to have a one-rank gap between a captain and first lieutenant, no commanders aboard. Then in the 1800s it became common in the British navy to have a commander as second-in-command on a big ship. In the US Navy that didn't become the rule till the early 1900s, battleships and cruisers usually having a captain CO and a lieutenant commander XO. In the 20th century it became standard that XOs were the next rank below the CO, that position being a major test to see if the officer would be promoted to the next grade. But in the super-carrier USN, the captain has to be an aviator or naval flight officer, and invariably has to command an air squadron as the major stepping stone, which is a job for a fairly senior commander. So by the time they have done that, then gone to nuclear power school and been assigned to a CVN as exec, they are reaching the point for promotion to captain. But still several years junior to the carrier's CO.

    So what? Hobson's superiors thought that Data had the experience and qualifications needed for the command. If that wasn't good enough, Hobson should be in another line of work.