LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

[GalaxyX]

^But studios do take the money into account, which is why no more were made. It wasn't an aesthetic decision, it was a financial one.

All they had to do was not be such cheap fucks, thinking they could make a major motion picture for $30 mil, when most blockbuster movies start at around $150 mil. When they did it for nuTrek, they made their money back three fold. I wonder why? :roll eyes:

Ruafo wanted to just grab the rings and run, and burn the Baku--which the Federation wouldn't allow, and Dougherty told him as much

Too bad that didn't happen

 

[sonak]

^But studios do take the money into account, which is why no more were made. It wasn't an aesthetic decision, it was a financial one.

All they had to do was not be such cheap fucks, thinking they could make a major motion picture for $30 mil, when most blockbuster movies start at around $150 mil. When they did it for nuTrek, they made their money back three fold. I wonder why? :roll eyes:

Ruafo wanted to just grab the rings and run, and burn the Baku--which the Federation wouldn't allow, and Dougherty told him as much

Too bad that didn't happen

the massive $100 million + budgets really didn't take off until the 2000s. And Star Trek: First Contact did very well on a budget of around $50 million. Nemesis wouldn't have done well whether it had a $30 million or $300 million budget. The problems were with the script and the state of the franchise at that time.

 

[BillJ]

From everything I've read over the years, Nemesis had a $60 million dollar budget. Of course, most of that probably went to Stewart and Spiner.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Just to be fair, I'm going to post the opposite view(s) of fans and pro critics that did like Insurrection/Nemesis, mostly from Metacritic:

Critic Reviews

'The maturity of the Star Trek saga and its remarkable fan base have combined to produce a polished film that shines like a crown jewel in the Star Trek firmament.'

-George Powell, San Francisco Examiner

'Paramount's most lucrative long-running franchise (nine films in nineteen years) shows little wear and tear in this installment, perhaps the most colorful and relaxed of the series.'

-Bruce Diones, The New Yorker

'Star Trek: Insurrection is out there where the imagination collides with roaring spaceships, exotic planets, wonderfully nutty costumes, a few choice jokes and some fascinating ideas.'

-Peter Stack, San Francisco Chronicle

In just about every way, Insurrection seems as if everyone involved is still stuck in the weekly grind of turning out the series, but the results don't disappoint too terribly.

-Keith Phipps, A.V. Club

User Reviews:

'INSURRECTION does what Star Trek does best, take a socially relevant problem and explore how to solve it.'

-HenryP1983

'Of all the Star Trek films I like this one the best. The plot is, perhaps, a little tame compared to the others but thats why I like it.'

-Chris

I've always found that I enjoy watching this movie, and I've probably watched it 10 times.. more than any other Star Trek movie.

-MarkW

Star Trek: Insurrection Reviews - Metacritic

From the site Whatculture!:

I recently read a list ranking the 12 Star Trek films from worst to best. To my surprise Insurrection was placed bottom. Surely 5 is the worst one?!

Seriously, like have you ever watched 5?

For me there are three categories of Trek film, ‘good’, ‘bad’ and ‘ok’. Insurrection falls into the ‘ok’ category (along with 3, 7, 10).

Following on from First Contact was always going to be tough, but it all had all the right ingredients. Jonathan Frakes returned to direct, Jerry Goldsmith returned for the music, it was the first film to be fully CGI for the ship scenes too. It could of been great.

5 Reasons Why Star Trek: Insurrection Isn’t That Bad

 

[DonIago]

I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.

 

[AgentCoop]

Many of those blurbs are the very definition of damning with faint praise. Sure, I agree: They're okay movies. I expect more from Trek than merely okay.

 

[JarodRussell]

I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.

Has such a thing ever happened?

„Oh gee, you are right, now I actually like the film!“

 

[DonIago]

Probably not to that extent, but I like to think that if someone can point out a flaw in a position I've held that I can be open-minded enough to reconsider said position.

 

[Lance]

I've been watching the Blu Rays 'round table' features recently. I do like how panellist Jeff Bond makes a few excellent points about the TNG movies I agree with: that "First Contact" was arguably the only movie which had true crossover audience appeal (even the overtly Star Trek elements and characters were all presented in a broad, easy-to-understand-if-you've-never-seen-the-series way), and that for a lot of people the disappointment with "Nemesis" may not totally come from that movie in itself, but more from the fact that it left TNG in a sour note and a lot of fans kind of think there should have been one more adventure for this crew to sign off their names ala "The Undiscovered Country".

As part 1 of a potential two-part the end of TNG storyline, NEM might even have been tolerable. But as it is, it leaves far too many strings left hanging for it to truely be 'A Generation's Final Journey'. We never really got the closure on TNG we needed, and NEM was a lousy way for TNG to end.

 

[sonak]

I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

TLDR; TLDR.

Has such a thing ever happened?

„Oh gee, you are right, now I actually like the film!“

seriously? You've NEVER changed or re-considered an opinion that you held on a work because of a persuasive and well-made argument?


opinions that don't change as a response to effective arguments aren't opinions so much as dogma.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Just to be fair, I'm going to post the opposite view(s) of fans and pro critics that did like Insurrection/Nemesis, mostly from Metacritic:

Critic Reviews

'The maturity of the Star Trek saga and its remarkable fan base have combined to produce a polished film that shines like a crown jewel in the Star Trek firmament.'

-George Powell, San Francisco Examiner

How could anyone have typed the above with a straight face or without blushing?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

^ I guess that he saw and like the movie enough to defend its merits.

opinions that don't change as a response to effective arguments aren't opinions so much as dogma.

So by that measure, I guess that I can convince you to like this movie by showing you this essay on why it's been wronged?

 

[DonIago]

Maybe, though Sonak clearly said "effective" arguments.

 

[Hober Mallow]

^ I guess that he saw and like the movie enough to defend its merits.

I get liking the film, and defedning its merits as many posters on this board have done time and time again. But shining like a crown jewel in the Star Trek firmament? Come on...

 

[sonak]

^ I guess that he saw and like the movie enough to defend its merits.

opinions that don't change as a response to effective arguments aren't opinions so much as dogma.

So by that measure, I guess that I can convince you to like this movie by showing you this essay on why it's been wronged?

well, I just sort of skimmed that for now, but it's probably not the best example since I don't think TPM is a terrible movie, merely a mediocre one, so persuading me to go from 2 or 2.5 stars to 3 or 3.5 isn't a heavy lift.

Moreover though, there are certainly movies that I disliked but have come to see with a new respect(even if I don't come to actually ENJOY them) thanks to some well reasoned arguments. And the opposite is true-after "The Dark Knight" came out and it received almost universal praise, I loved it, but made sure to read critical reviews that touched on things like plot holes.

The bottom line is that movies are art, not mathematical or scientific truths. Half of the fun of reading stuff on a forum like this is to see if new angles on a movie can get you to re-think your opinion on it.

 

[DonIago]

Well-said!