Last Doctor Who Story you listened to?

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah. That's what's so impressive about Courtney. He took what, on paper, was your standard hidebound, unimaginative, warmongering authority figure that I'd normally have no respect for, yet made him charming and sympathetic. It's a classic illustration of what an actor can bring to a role. (Although so is the Doctor, really, given that it's all about each new actor making the character their own, reinventing the style while the substance stays essentially the same.)

Its really impressive. Its kind of like in Trek, where Rene Aubergenois managed to inject real human qualities into Odo, making him more multi-dimensional and in the process enrich an on-paper stark authority figure. I can't imagine Michael Pillar ever even dreamed of where Odo would end up at in season 7 in terms of character development, lets say.

My only gripe with Courtney, and its not with him but the writers of the show... He's superfluous in Battlefield. Worse, he's actually detrimental in trying to establish a new authority figure in Brigadier Bambera. So much so that he doesn't even die when he was supposed to. Similarly, it seems "criminal" to me that RTD never brought him to the show, although that might have to do with the era he was most influenced by, but still... series 4 could surely have had him at a guest spot? In the Sontaran two-parter maybe?

Oddly enough, one of his best post-show appearences as the Brigadier is really the rather professionally-but-still fan-made Downtime (and even more ironically, Sarah Jane is in there, but she is rather superfluous!). Love that production to bits.

 

[Christopher]

Similarly, it seems "criminal" to me that RTD never brought him to the show, although that might have to do with the era he was most influenced by, but still... series 4 could surely have had him at a guest spot? In the Sontaran two-parter maybe?

He did appear in RTD's The Sarah Jane Adventures.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

He did appear in RTD's The Sarah Jane Adventures.

I know, but it was great to see him, but it did feel like the part he was in was a rewritten one. Just wish he'd been on NuWho for one last time, in a story befitting his legacy.

 

[Christopher]

Minuet in Hell was rather uneven. The part about the Doctor's identity crisis was interesting, but the rest was kind of silly. Big Finish's attempts to depict the United States tended to be pretty silly, as I recall. The caricatured Southern senator who talked like Yosemite Sam was particularly ridiculous. And it was distracting that the main bad guy was played by Robert Jezek, so that he sometimes sounded almost exactly like Frobisher.

I guess the plot with Nicholas Briggs's character becoming "the Doctor" was an homage to him playing the Doctor in the fan audio series that this and several others were remade from. I feel that they missed an opportunity by having the real Doctor restore his own memories. I was expecting they'd have the Brigadier accept Gideon as the Doctor, then have it be Charley who finally set the Doctors straight, so that she and the Brig would then save the Doctor from his own belief that he was someone else. Having that bit happen after the Doctor's already cured himself was a lot weaker.

This is one of those stories using the old cliche of a politician being ruined by getting caught on mike saying something embarrassing or insulting to the voters. As it happens, Adam-Troy Castro pointed out just yesterday why this trope can't work anymore.

I'm confused because a lot of the fourth episode seemed familiar, as if I had heard this one before, even though the Wiki says it was never broadcast on BBC Radio. And it's weird that I'd only find the ending familiar.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

How was the Brig?

 

[Christopher]

How was the Brig?

Fine. His role here actually related to my thoughts about his last appearance, how easily he accepted the Doctor with a new face. I thought about how easy it would be for him to be fooled into thinking someone was the Doctor, though I was thinking of a deliberate imposture -- which, come to think of it, already happened in "Mawdryn Undead," so this is the second time the Brig's been fooled.

 

[Christopher]

Loups-Garoux was kind of weird and uneven. Weird that a werewolf story set in Brazil would have them referred to by a French name, even by the indigenous character Rosa. The story was rather vague on the appearance and size of the loups-garoux, with one of them even being able to swallow Turlough whole and bring him somewhere else before egesting him in one piece -- more like something out of a fairy tale than anything that makes sense.

Also, Burt Kwouk's attempt at a Japanese accent was terrible, sounding like an outdated caricature. Apparently he was born in England and raised in Shanghai and the US. I don't know if the accent he used was Chinese-influenced, but it sure wasn't Japanese.

I did like the way the Doctor used the TARDIS to jump onto a moving train by hovering over the tracks and then doing a 10-second time jump in one place.

 

[Christopher]

I'm going through them fast now... Dust Breeding was fairly good, but it was weird in that it referred back to a novel I haven't read, so I was confused when Ace said she and the Doctor had encountered the monsters before. It certainly wasn't as good an art-based story as "Vincent and the Doctor," but it was okay.

Remind me -- when Geoffrey Beevers played the Master in "The Keeper of Traken," he didn't use a regular voice, did he? It was raspy and wheezing, as I recall. So it's weird to justify his casting by saying the Master was stripped of his Tremas form and reverted, yet let him keep speaking in a normal voice. I'm disappointed they weren't able to get Anthony Ainsley back, but at least recasting the Master let them make it a surprise (for those who didn't read the Wiki entry before listening, at least).

While this one references one of the BBC novels, it's hard to reconcile with Lonemagpie's First Frontier, in which the post-"Survival" Master gets a cure for his Cheetah People infection and regenerates into a new form (that's implicitly Basil Rathbone). This is also post-"Survival," but he was in his Tremas form beforehand and showed no sign of Cheetah-ism.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Geoffrey Beevers is my favorite Master in all performed Who media. Delgado is a tie but purely because he has the visual advantage, otherwise Beevers is my ideal version of the Master. His voice is superb.

Also, best to not to think about the audios matching the books too closely, although there is an explanation somewhere that I can find, if you're interested.

 

[Christopher]

Also, best to not to think about the audios matching the books too closely, although there is an explanation somewhere that I can find, if you're interested.

Well, the idea has been out there for a while that the two or three Time Wars in the books, audios, and show have rewritten history, although that's an imperfect explanation, because usually we've seen that the Doctor and his current companions remember the original history after it's changed.

Of course, I've never felt it was required for different tie-ins to the same franchise to be in continuity with each other; I mean, I grew up with Star Trek tie-ins that had no continuity at all except in occasional subsets of works. But it's nice when they can fit together. And it's weird when they're inconsistent about whether they're consistent. It wasn't that long ago that we had a Seventh Doctor audio set in the Virgin novel continuity with Benny Summerfield and Ace McShane, Dalek Killer, yet now we have a Seventh Doctor audio that contradicts the Virgin continuity while building on the BBC novel continuity. And I gather the BBC novels initially ignored the Virgin novels but later started to acknowledge them.

Oh, well, it's not like the show's continuity was ever any better.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Sure. But I still think, minus several glaring hiccups, the show has got an enormous consistency, continuity-wise.

(until last season, that is, but whatever)

 

[Christopher]

Sure. But I still think, minus several glaring hiccups, the show has got an enormous consistency, continuity-wise.

No, it never really did -- nor did it need to, because it was made for children too young to remember the earlier seasons, not for continuity-obsessed modern fans. And because it's been through so many different creators over the decades, so naturally it's been reinterpreted and reinvented countless times, which is part of what keeps it fresh and alive. It doesn't have to be one uniform thing, any more than the Doctor does.

Anyway, I'm pausing halfway through Bloodtide now, and I'm quite enjoying it so far. Six and Evelyn are a lot of fun together, and I love the Doctor surprising Evelyn by bringing her to meet Charles Darwin on the Galapagos. I wish they'd toned down the Silurians' voice treatment a bit, though, so it would be easier to understand their dialogue.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

No, it never really did -- nor did it need to, because it was made for children too young to remember the earlier seasons, not for continuity-obsessed modern fans. And because it's been through so many different creators over the decades, so naturally it's been reinterpreted and reinvented countless times, which is part of what keeps it fresh and alive. It doesn't have to be one uniform thing, any more than the Doctor does.

I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree. While it is clear there have been obvious references to stuff that don't stand to scrutiny (like the First Doctor apparently having one heart only), I genuinely do believe it holds together for the longest part. Holmes and especially Dicks didn't rewrite the show's history to their whim, and certainly took into account the characters and their histories seriously, and Dicks has said so many times over the years.

Anyway, I'm pausing halfway through Bloodtide now, and I'm quite enjoying it so far. Six and Evelyn are a lot of fun together, and I love the Doctor surprising Evelyn by bringing her to meet Charles Darwin on the Galapagos. I wish they'd toned down the Silurians' voice treatment a bit, though, so it would be easier to understand their dialogue.

Yeah, the Silurians are a chore in Bloodtide, at least in my memory they are. But I genuinely love Six and Evelyn, so far as to call her his definitive companion (sorry Peri).

 

[Christopher]

I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree. While it is clear there have been obvious references to stuff that don't stand to scrutiny (like the First Doctor apparently having one heart only), I genuinely do believe it holds together for the longest part. Holmes and especially Dicks didn't rewrite the show's history to their whim, and certainly took into account the characters and their histories seriously, and Dicks has said so many times over the years.

In broad strokes, sure, but this isn't a binary question. Fans today are way too obsessed with precise details, which isn't what continuity is really about -- it's more about creating the illusion of a unified whole even when the details are all over the place, like the way modern Marvel comics still acknowledge the general events of the original '60s stories while retconning their specifics to the early 2000s. Continuity in concept and character does not require continuity in every other respect.

I'm reminded of when the Paul McGann movie premiered. There was this guy on a local bulletin board who hated the movie with an almost frightening fanaticism, raging nonstop about all the ways it "violated" canon by being inconsistent with what had come before, even though the movie was no more different from "Survival" than "Survival" had been from "An Unearthly Child" -- just without as gradual a transition in between them. He refused to accept that the series had always evolved and grown and redefined things over time, insisting that there had to be a single, inflexible, absolute way of defining the Doctor and his world, which struck me as profoundly missing the point. Change is the strength of Doctor Who. It's what's kept it alive and vital all these decades. The fact that it changes and reimagines itself is something to celebrate, not condemn.

Yeah, the Silurians are a chore in Bloodtide, at least in my memory they are. But I genuinely love Six and Evelyn, so far as to call her his definitive companion (sorry Peri).

I could've done without the author's Luddite commentary on the evils of GMO foods (a fear that science has debunked, though it lingers in the minds of the masses), and I could've done without yet another Doctor Who story attributing human origins to some alien tampering or other. But I did quite like the character study of Charles Darwin, and Six and Evelyn do make a great pair.

 

[Christopher]

Project: Twilight was okay, but nothing special. I'm not a big fan of either vampire stories or conspiracy stories, so the main appeal here came from the Doctor and Evelyn. I'm grateful that the audios gave Colin Baker a chance to show what a superb Doctor he could really be.

This is the last audio Hoopla will let me borrow this month, so I won't get to meet Erimem until next week.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Project: Twlight also begins an arc that spans the Sixth and Seventh Doctors, via the Forge. If you pay attention, you'll find its highly and extraordinarily rewarding.

 

[Christopher]

Project: Twlight also begins an arc that spans the Sixth and Seventh Doctors, via the Forge. If you pay attention, you'll find its highly and extraordinarily rewarding.

Again, vampires and conspiracies aren't really my thing, but we'll see.

Speaking of arcs, though, I noticed the Doctor singing a little ditty about Zagreus...

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Again, vampires and conspiracies aren't really my thing, but we'll see.

Speaking of arcs, though, I noticed the Doctor singing a little ditty about Zagreus...

Hah, yeah. Foreshadowing, there.

I wish they'd kept the Zagreus reference in NuWho. I like it.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

This is the last audio Hoopla will let me borrow this month, so I won't get to meet Erimem until next week.

In the meantime, you could take a look at the special webcast they did for the BBC site, called Real Time. It features the Sixth and Evelyn, and chronologically occurs after Project: Twilight.

It was also released as an audio story later on, but this is something you can definitely view now. Crucially, its the first appearence of the Sixth Doctor wearing his beloved BLUE coat.

For your viewing pleasure, here it is:

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[Christopher]

In the meantime, you could take a look at the special webcast they did for the BBC site, called Real Time. It features the Sixth and Evelyn, and chronologically occurs after Project: Twilight.

Thanks for that. The audio isn't among the limited selection available from Hoopla anyway.

It was okay, though the unresolved cliffhanger hurts it a bit, and the visuals were almost too limited to be worth it. Yee Jee Tso gave kind of a flat performance, though I guess that fit the character in a way.

The half-converted Cybermen are an interesting parallel with Torchwood: "Cyberwoman," particularly since they both depicted female half-converts in gratuitously bikini-esque armor pieces (though at least this one somewhat justified it by having the male versions be similar).