Last Doctor Who Story you listened to?

[Emperor-Tiberius]

All hail Frobisher! All hail the Big Talking Bird!

Also, Benny is someone I've never known about beyond the Eighth Doctor episode Benny's Story in the anthology serial The Company of Friends from years ago. But after listening to her again in the Legacy of Time box set and of course the Seventh Doctor audios (she's very prominent in the Novel Adaptations range), I see her as the prototype River Song in that being a Mary Sue character who evolved to a fairly cool character all on her own. I love Benny, though I really have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the Ace/Benny dynamic, personally.

 

[Christopher]

I see her as the prototype River Song in that being a Mary Sue character who evolved to a fairly cool character all on her own.

Prototype River, absolutely. But "Mary Sue?" That's a tired, played-out epithet that couldn't be less applicable here. Benny doesn't remotely deserve it, any more than any other companion. I doubt she's an authorial-insertion character for Paul Cornell. She actually has engaging qualities on the page, rather than failing to demonstrate the amazingness the other characters allege she possesses. And the Doctor didn't have to be written out of character and hobbled in his abilities in order for Benny to outshine him. He sometimes needed her to save him from monsters or from himself, yes, but you could say the same about many companions, classic and new.

Hell, Benny's much, much less of a "Mary Sue" than River was. She was never presented as a love interest for the Doctor (despite her attraction to a glimpse of his next incarnation in Scourge), didn't outdo him at piloting the TARDIS, didn't have some great mystery about her origins, none of that. She was even less of one than Ace was in the NAs, because she didn't go off for a time and return in a later story with years of added Dalek-fighting experience and futuristic weapons and a sexy black catsuit like Ace did. She was just a very human character with lots of flaws, inner pain masked with humor and heavy drinking, and a normal adult sex drive, pretty much what you'd expect of a New Adventures-original companion.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Prototype River, absolutely.

But "Mary Sue?" That's a tired, played-out epithet that couldn't be less applicable here. Benny doesn't remotely deserve it, any more than any other companion.

Fine. I retract that part. I didn't mean to demean any companion in any way (even if Adric is always asking for it). I also admit part of my ignorance comes from my sheer lack of experience with the New Adventures books, since I've never read them and what I know of them comes from the Novel Adaptations Big Finish did of them recently.

 

[Christopher]

Well, The Holy Terror started out seeming rather silly and Pythonesque, but ended up going in an unexpectedly dark direction. Interesting. And now it's two consecutive audio stories that have no budgetary limitations on scenery or effects, yet still do bottle shows set completely within a single structure. There's even a joke where the Doctor muses that the corridors always look alike.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Fine. I retract that part. I didn't mean to demean any companion in any way (even if Adric is always asking for it). I also admit part of my ignorance comes from my sheer lack of experience with the New Adventures books, since I've never read them and what I know of them comes from the Novel Adaptations Big Finish did of them recently.

The original version of Human Nature was reprinted a few years ago, and Lonemagpie posted a link to Sanctuary (and his other Doctor Who novels) in a thread earlier this year. Those are worth looking into, because they show Benny in her companion days. An important distinction, as Benny now has far more solo adventures than TARDIS adventures.

I was reading one of Lance Parkin's unpublished epilogues to The Dying Days recently, and it occurred to me that River Song is a combination of Benny (career) and her ex-husband Jason Kane (personality).

 

[Christopher]

Lonemagpie posted a link to Sanctuary (and his other Doctor Who novels) in a thread earlier this year.

As an addendum, now that I finally know what Frobisher sounds like, I just started reading the last remaining one of those, Mission: Impractical, which is a Six/Frobisher story (with Glitz & Dibber too). Well, the last one except the Eighth Doctor novel, which appears to be late in an ongoing series rather than self-contained, so I'm skipping it, at least for now.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, The Holy Terror started out seeming rather silly and Pythonesque, but ended up going in an unexpectedly dark direction. Interesting. And now it's two consecutive audio stories that have no budgetary limitations on scenery or effects, yet still do bottle shows set completely within a single structure. There's even a joke where the Doctor muses that the corridors always look alike.

I think this is the earliest indication of how Who is so strong, narratively and conceptually, that it can allow meta-criticism to its psyche and stll be enjoyed as it is. That comment is basically Shearman's way to saying that OldWho's limitations were not a weakness, but a distinctive strength, and as such produces an weirdly dark tale of abandonement and regret.

It really is a contender for the best Who audio story, if not story period. The ending alone is chilling and sends me the shivers.

Oh, and lest we forget: ALL HAIL FROBISHER! ALL HAIL THE BIG TALKING BIRD!

 

[Allyn Gibson]

As an addendum, now that I finally know what Frobisher sounds like, I just started reading the last remaining one of those, Mission: Impractical, which is a Six/Frobisher story (with Glitz & Dibber too).

I so rarely "cast" voices or actors for characters that appeared in the comics and novels, like Frobisher. It's why I generally steer clear of the fan casting threads over in the Treklit forum; the printed page should suffice to bring the character to life.

Lisa Bowerman is fine as Benny, but I don't "see" or "hear" her as the New Adventures character. Frobisher, when reading "Voyager," doesn't have Robert Jezek's voice in my head. And even though I would have cast Kelly Macdonald as Izzy in a Torchwood episode, that's not who I "hear" when reading the eighth Doctor comics, and I think Jemima Rooper was either horribly miscast or horribly directed as Izzy for The Company of Friends.

 

[Christopher]

It really is a contender for the best Who audio story, if not story period.

I wouldn't go that far. It was interesting, but I wouldn't say it was as good as the previous one. And it left a lot unanswered, like the origins of the prison. If it worked the same way as the TARDIS, did that mean it was actually a Time Lord prison? It was reminiscent of the confession dial where the Twelfth Doctor was trapped in "Heaven Sent." And yet the cultural referents and stereotypes all seemed to be drawn from Earth fiction.

I so rarely "cast" voices or actors for characters that appeared in the comics and novels, like Frobisher. It's why I generally steer clear of the fan casting threads over in the Treklit forum; the printed page should suffice to bring the character to life.

I've always acted out prose or comics stories in my head, so it helps to have inspiration for the voices. If there's an existing actor available, I prefer to know what they sound like. I read an IDW comic with Frobisher in it not long ago, and I initially imagined him with a prim English accent until I tracked down an audio clip of Jezek's performance (probably an excerpt from this).

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I wouldn't go that far. It was interesting, but I wouldn't say it was as good as the previous one. And it left a lot unanswered, like the origins of the prison. If it worked the same way as the TARDIS, did that mean it was actually a Time Lord prison? It was reminiscent of the confession dial where the Twelfth Doctor was trapped in "Heaven Sent." And yet the cultural referents and stereotypes all seemed to be drawn from Earth fiction.

I would say its as good as any Doctor Who story can get. You have Colin Baker giving a multi-faceted performance as a Sixth who has further mellowed but still recognizeably season 23 self, while also displaying actual sympathy, empathy, disgust, terror, wonder, despair and actual grief and contentment. Frobisher also pops to screen as probably my second-favorite of Six's companions (Holy Terror convinced me to go after the Frobisher comics last year) and Shearman's writing is distinctive and effective, mixing as you said absurdist humor with real horror, making him in my mind the truest heir to Bob Holmes' Best Writer Shrine, though he's not mimicking him (like Saward did, for instance). I love this audio to bits, but I will grant you I didn't feel this way the first time I listened to it. Its something that grows on you.

If you can find the second and last Frobisher audio, The Maltese Penguin, do so. Its a very conscious 50's noir pastiche.

I've always acted out prose or comics stories in my head, so it helps to have inspiration for the voices. If there's an existing actor available, I prefer to know what they sound like. I read an IDW comic with Frobisher in it not long ago, and I initially imagined him with a prim English accent until I tracked down an audio clip of Jezek's performance (probably an excerpt from this).

I guess my starting up on DW on 2013, meant that I had to skip all that. Audio is my main takeaway and as such, I didn't quite follow the comics, and still don't. That said, as I mentioned above, I did start reading up on the Frobisher comics last year, and they were rather lovely. Its odd, but it seems the Sixth Doctor worked elsewhere than on the small screen, as far back as the actual time Colin Baker was the incumbent Doctor!

 

[Christopher]

Dalek Empire: The Mutant Phase wasn't great. The menace of indestructible super-Dalek wasps so devastating even the Daleks fear them was so absurdly over-the-top that it was hard to take seriously, and the bit where the Doctor told Nyssa he couldn't explain time-travel secrets to her in case she got tortured by his enemies in the future was just bizarre. It could've worked if it hadn't been taken to such ludicrous extremes, because the idea of the Daleks being terrified by an incurable mutation that marred their genetic "perfection" is very much in character.

This is one of the first times that an audio has referred back to an earlier audio, with Nyssa mentioning the events of The Land of the Dead. While The Apocalypse Element brought back the character of Vansell from The Sirens of Time, I don't think it directly referenced its events, since they were mostly in an alternate timeline. Of course, this is only the third time we've had more than one audio with a given Doctor/companion pair, the others being 7/Ace and 6/Evelyn.

Which, of course, is about to change, because my revisit of the first 8/Charley "season" is coming up next.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The Five-Nyssa audios definitely feel like a season, certainly the first couple of years' releases. I remember liking The Mutant Phase, and Briggs' screaming of that phrase is oddly embedded on my mind. I also remember liking how they retro-explained her absence in Kinda and generally showing Nyssa in Traken long before its destruction. Beyond that, I don't really remember it all that much.

 

[Christopher]

I've now re-listened to Storm Warning and Sword of Orion. They're both fair-to-middling, which is about how I recall my opinion of them the first time around. McGann does a good job as the Doctor, and I like Charley well enough, but the stories are a mixed bag.

Warning had a clumsy opening with the Doctor talking to himself for want of a companion; it would've worked better to start off following Charley and not introduce the Doctor until she met him, so as to avoid that problem (although that would've made it trickier to set up how he lost the TARDIS). And the stuff around the R-101 disaster was kind of interesting, and Gareth Thomas did a good guest turn, but the aliens didn't work that well for me. Also, the whole business of "I've created a time paradox by saving Charley, oh no, I shouldn't have done that" makes little sense. The Doctor's saved countless people in past, present, and future (or set things in motion that brought about people's deaths) without ever stopping to check whether history recorded their demise, and it never made a difference before.

As for Sword of Orion, it wasn't bad, just kind of routine. It felt like a typical Cyberman serial, which is probably what Briggs was going for, but it was maybe a little too typical. I guess my main issue is how long it took the Doctor to figure out there was a Cybermat aboard, when he should have recognized the signs. I mean, he'd been telling Charley about the Cyber Wars just hours before.

One minor detail: it may have been a mistake to have Charley say the word "airlock" as if she'd never heard it before. Airlocks were invented in the mid-1800s in underground excavation and tunneling operations, to allow passage between areas of different air pressure. They're also used on submarines, which were around well before Charley's 1930 time period. Charley is apparently pretty well educated and fascinated by adventure, so she seems the type who'd be aware of such things.

Next up is The Stones of Venice, which I don't think I liked much the first time. I hope I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Strictly and retroactively speaking, and this one probably isn't available to you, I believe the story immediately following Storm Warning is actually the Light at the End. At least, the next story in the 8th Doctor's timeline.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Light_at_the_End_(audio_story)

 

[Christopher]

^No, that's not available on Hoopla. Besides, if I cared about chronological order, I wouldn't be listening in release order.

 

[Christopher]

Next up is The Stones of Venice, which I don't think I liked much the first time. I hope I'm remembering wrong.

I remembered right -- The Stones of Venice is terrible. The worldbuilding is incoherent. It's 23rd-century Venice, and there are some kind of unexplained mutant fish people living in the canals, but the residents act like they're from the Renaissance or something and scoff at the idea of spaceflight and alien worlds, even though plenty of Doctor Who serials established that humanity had an active interstellar presence by the 23rd century, not to mention having been conquered by Daleks in the 22nd. Heck, the story doesn't even seem to remember the rest of Earth beyond Venice, because everyone remaining is apparently doomed to die because there are no more boats to leave in, as if 23rd-century Earth had no aircraft. (I dunno, I guess it would've taken time for Earth to rebuild after the Dalek Invasion ended, and there could've been enclaves of primitivism remaining, but surely their inhabitants wouldn't forget that aliens and space travel existed.)

And it starts with the Doctor saying that the final destruction of Venice on that date was an established fact of history, yet it ended with the destruction being prevented, and the Doctor didn't voice any of the concerns about changing the timeline that he was so worried about two stories ago. None of it makes a damn bit of sense, and most of the characters are annoyingly one-note in their dialogue and goals, when they aren't being tediously morbid about their imminent doom.

The next one, Minuet in Hell, will be new to me. According to the TARDIS Wiki, there was a 2005 BBC Radio broadcast of five of the first six Eighth Doctor audios plus Big Finish's Shada, so that must be where I heard them before; but Minuet was "excluded from broadcast due to its adult themes." Hmmmmm...

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Minuet in Hell is not exactly a good one, although I enjoyed it at the time. more than the Venice one, to be frank. It also features the Brigadier! But like in Mawdryn Undead, it seems like his role could've been filled by someone else.

 

[Christopher]

It also features the Brigadier! But like in Mawdryn Undead, it seems like his role could've been filled by someone else.

Which is literally true of "Mawdryn," of course, since it was written for Ian Chesterton.

But I look forward to the Brig's return. Nicholas Courtney had a great voice. And it's always worth seeing/hearing how the Brig reacts to meeting a new Doctor, although he took it very much in stride last time. The last two times, counting The Spectre of Lanyon Moor and "Battlefield." ("Who else would it be?")

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Which is literally true of "Mawdryn," of course, since it was written for Ian Chesterton.

Poor Ian. And Barbara, to be perfectly honest. The original companions never coming back to the show, with Ian getting so close. But at least William Russell got to play the part again on audio, but again not with any contemporary Doctor (though he did meet with the Fifth Doctor in The Five Companions, but that's another story).

But I look forward to the Brig's return. Nicholas Courtney had a great voice. And it's always worth seeing/hearing how the Brig reacts to meeting a new Doctor, although he took it very much in stride last time. The last two times, counting The Spectre of Lanyon Moor and "Battlefield." ("Who else would it be?")

I love the Brig. Despite being an anti-military man myself, but having worked for military intelligence, I definitely see him as being the more idealized version of a commanding officer, surely.

Chronologically, the Brig has met the Sixth Doctor after meeting with the Seventh, of course. Spectre of Lanyon Moor was squarely set in 2000 (basically, the date of the story's release). Minuet in Hell is set in 2004, if I remember correctly.

 

[Christopher]

I love the Brig. Despite being an anti-military man myself, but having worked for military intelligence, I definitely see him as being the more idealized version of a commanding officer, surely.

Yeah. That's what's so impressive about Courtney. He took what, on paper, was your standard hidebound, unimaginative, warmongering authority figure that I'd normally have no respect for, yet made him charming and sympathetic. It's a classic illustration of what an actor can bring to a role. (Although so is the Doctor, really, given that it's all about each new actor making the character their own, reinventing the style while the substance stays essentially the same.)