Last Classic Who Story you watched

[Christopher]

Knowing Ace's backstory and personality (which is nothing like Rose, a parallel oddly made time and again)

If people are drawing parallels between Ace and Rose Tyler, I doubt it's to say their personalities are the same -- probably just that Ace was the first companion in the classic series who really had the kind of character development and complexity that became the norm in the new series starting with Rose.

 

[Qonundrum]

If people are drawing parallels between Ace and Rose Tyler, I doubt it's to say their personalities are the same -- probably just that Ace was the first companion in the classic series who really had the kind of character development and complexity that became the norm in the new series starting with Rose.

I never saw the comparison, beyond the base level of "they got character development when most didn't".

Barbara and Ian and Leela had some character development as well, just of different and/or less-focused sorts.

One reason why I disagree with the parallel is that Rose always came across as a stereotype stick figure. She was a bit nasty to Mickey, who became useless to her after he stopped feeding her fast food. Mickey was a stick figure too, as second fiddle comic relief and the butt of jokes. At least he got decent development in series two and to the point a lot of people preferred him as being a companion. That's the same season two where Rose became truly insufferable - though her actions in "The Parting of the Ways" and saving just Jack were a hoot as well; it's strange the Doctor didn't admonish her behavior. She'd dump Jack too once the fast-food grease dried up. Unless he would dump her as he was another unrelatable stick figure too.

 

[Christopher]

I never saw the comparison, beyond the base level of "they got character development when most didn't".

Which is exactly my point.

Barbara and Ian and Leela had some character development as well, just of different and/or less-focused sorts.

Again, the point. Until Ace, there were rarely any serials where the adventure plot was specifically designed to delve into a companion's backstory or require them to confront their emotional hangups. There was some of that with Adric, Nyssa, and Tegan, but usually the most focus on a companion's inner life was in their debut or departure serials.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I would say Turlough was the closest to that, actually, with his exit story in The Planet of Fire showing his people and the like, but Ace was really the first on-screen companion to be of equal character importance as the Doctor. While Ian and Barbara were the protagonists in the original season, the focus was clearly was turning away from them, to the point that the object in question (Doctor Who) because the object of interest.

 

[Christopher]

I would say Turlough was the closest to that, actually, with his exit story in The Planet of Fire showing his people and the like, but Ace was really the first on-screen companion to be of equal character importance as the Doctor. While Ian and Barbara were the protagonists in the original season, the focus was clearly was turning away from them, to the point that the object in question (Doctor Who) because the object of interest.

Yes. And Ian and Barbara didn't really get any exploration of their backstories or personal lives even when they were the central characters.

 

[Qonundrum]

Until Ace, there were rarely any serials where the adventure plot was specifically designed to delve into a companion's backstory or require them to confront their emotional hangups. There was some of that with Adric, Nyssa, and Tegan, but usually the most focus on a companion's inner life was in their debut or departure serials.

Definitely true. It drove me nuts even at the time that, despite their introductions, they would just be stick figures for the bulk of their tenure. Adric got the most attention, despite the overused retread of "Adric sides with baddies", since only Eric Saward remembered his unique traits and bothered to use them in stories such as "The Visitation" and others.

Even Romana I had a great introduction - complementing the Doctor's "street smarts" with "book smarts". That could have been developed better.

At the same time, it's a formula that shouldn't be reused too often or else it'd get stale; arguably none should beyond the base premise of "Alien in superior spacecraft that traverses time explores the universe, but whose camouflage unit has failed and rendering it stuck in an artifact from one civilization" since that premise is what makes DW interesting... and unique.

The more I rewatch season 26, the more special it feels. Especially as Ace wasn't a generic off-the-shelf character. But she's also more memorable than the bulk of the modern companions combined. Certainly more tactfully explored, and not as contrived as - for example - Clara.

 

[Qonundrum]

"SURVIVAL"

I watched this twice to be sure, plus it's a very entertaining one.

Wish I watched this season in production order as there is a running theme, but they work in aired order too.

As always, Sophie and Sylvester mesh perfectly and, indeed, Sylvester's "anger acting" is never better than here.

This posits a new type of danger to Doctor and companion. Not quite the same thing as spectrox toxemia, but once you're infected it's stuck with you and have to fight it. Forever. Almost like a drug addiction and/or herpes, innit?

The Master was never this subtle before- almost to counter the times he had to be over the top and near-caricature (his best stories are in the middle), but Antony Ainley steals the show and delivers an impeccable sense of menace.

Ange's asking Ace "Is he...?" about the Doctor is refreshingly open-ended; the most obvious and boring inference regarding that question followed with a phrase like "a nutter", rather than "gay" or "your love interest" or "the local encyclopedia salesman" as they were a thingy back then. But people can think into it any way they want. Or even multiple choice, complete with the option of "other" at the end of the list of choices.

The incidental music continues the award-winning streak.

Ace's friends - it's nice to see Ace's family, the more you think about it, and especially considering this was originally going to air just before "Ghost Light", it's actually nice that Ace gets a reprieve from all the nastiness bestowed by the Doctor in previous stories and now he's helping her. This new airing order seems to be a bit better. It's a very 80s thing, along with "counselors" in every school, to force someone to re-live the past trauma, and so on.

Midge in particular is wearing an earring that's another little secret and his brusqueness also hides a secret, but Ace and her pals probably all have similar emotional undercurrents. Ditto for the Karra/Ace scenes were hinting at lesbian subtext. It's metaphor, but it's smartly and tactfully done and not the dilettante "in yer face" sort that accomplishes nothing.

Apparently, they taped this in 100-degree weather. How the actors could withstand those outfits... the documentary reveals one person had not...

The story's recursive theme woven throughout involving "the law of the jungle" is rather astute, with many sharp moments both supporting the idea... and mocking it as well and that's when the story truly shines. Now look up nature shows and read how some animals help each other. This story loosely hints at a greater complexity, or I'm reading into it too much. It's all good.

The story has some (unintentionally) camp moments, but the production taking itself seriously loosens the blow just enough to not be drawn out of the story and what it is is telling.

The novelization goes to town on how vicious the Kitlings truly were.

On the other hand, at least we get to see Midge, now contaminated by the planet and slowly becoming one of them, be brutal...

What's more brutal is the pathetic reuse of the already-dumb shtick where Midge is mouthing what the Master tells him and nobody around him wonders why this stranger is talking to himself like that.

Apparently, the Doctor can just about knock people out by pressing his index finger against the middle of their forehead. Okey dokey then.

"A rising tide lifts all boats" prevailing, the Doctor and Ace are stuck in a bad situation, arguably worse than on Androzani. Part two's cliffhanger is especially poignant. Part three has the Doctor doing his best to help and remind Ace not to succumb.

Karra turns out to be a former human, turned into a Cheetah, but reverts upon death in a way that most Cheetahs had not when they died... The Karra/Ace scenes were probably the best in the story, one loaded with lots of great moments.

The making-of documentary shows the playground and buildings now covered in graffiti. Remember kids, Yellow Kangs aren't the best. Or they were. It depends on your point of view.

The Doctor also uses his newly acquired power to bring himself home when defending himself from the Master's attack as well. As with Ace, he's got it. Emphasis was given to her in how she shouldn't use it or else it would get worse and be permanent, but apparently the Doctor was able to fend it off for good - due to comparatively limited exposure. This power in general is allegorical, of course, in many ways, and the theme of surviving with it would probably have been stronger had this story had a fourth episode.

I'm amazed Midge's group of newly-made followers didn't trample over his corpse. Might have been too gruesome... in a story where Midge uses a former giant mammal's talon to murder a Cheetah in the chest with.

I could go on all day with all the little set-pieces and permutations... this story impressively handles a lot.

The "Cheetah People" (not the best name but McCoy's era is loaded with such uncreative terminology that led to complaints by many at the time, but I digress) aren't really explained. They just vanish to go meow on some other planet after the one they were on. What is explained is that these beings are a direct part of the planet in a symbiotic relationship. The planet was destroying itself due to their violence they commit, as stated per characters' dialogue in the story, since without that any old theory could be chucked at, and there seemed to be a point for making this connection to begin with, until the end whimsically flings it away - any point being flung out with it. Just so we can go "awwwww" because they cheetah folk, some of whom were transmogrified from former prey and others naturally that way, are able to play and continue kidnapping beings from across the cosmos to use as dinner... It's all arguably too open-ended and woolly in the end, but they're stuck with only three episodes to play with. Most of McCoy-era stories needed 5 or 6 episodes to smooth out the edges.

An easy 8/10 from me, maybe 9.

 

[Christopher]

Apparently, the Doctor can just about knock people out by pressing his index finger against the middle of their forehead. Okey dokey then.

A Venusian aikido move?

 

[Qonundrum]

A Venusian aikido move?

Great point!

That is the best sort of callback. No garish "self-aware" of pointing it out. It's continuity, but used to good effect - not nostalgiawank, which "Remembrance" and "Battlefield" are certainly known for with pointless reference-droppings. I forgot about the Pertwee era, which is next up in my rewatch list. Has been more than a decade, at least...

 

[Qonundrum]

I forgot to mention, from "SURVIVAL", how the Master states he is a time lord. Technically, he has the body of a person from Traken, though that is melded with his Gallifreyan body so there may still be residual aspects. That might be also how the Doctor could wrestle control back; the effect of the Cheetah influence not sticking.

And now:

"TIME AND THE RANI"

The legend starts here but, dang, this is a far cry from the glorious days of seasons 18 and 19 and the tone is all over the map, between serious and silly, and some real headscratcher moments.

But it's not without some charm... A script quickly devised, then quickly rewritten due to Colin leaving, it's amazing this story is watchable, but I blame that mostly on the small but poignant themes or things that rise above what works against the story, including - but not limited to:

• A return to a companion between Doctors who doesn't quickly accept the regeneration, an idea not really used since Ben and Polly - Mel and Doctor being separated helps immensely
• More, about Mel accepting the Doctor; she still does so and then states "Oh, I know all about regeneration" -- from where? Headcanon mode could hark back to her listening to the Master adumbrate the Valeyard's origin. It's a little loose, but not enough.
  
• Impersonating a companion (the making-of documentary has some great stuff told about this)
• Kidnapping the Doctor (a shame the regeneration induced was so weak, though some headcanon regarding the Rani's TARDIS-hijacking lasergun-with-perfect-accuracy-there that would only knock out lesser species but cause a forced regeneration to time lor-- eh, that's a bit of a stretch... )
• Replacement for a faulty component in the Rani's equipment (by using a grown and fermented material or plastic, taken from the remains of a dead Lakyrtian (compare to "Lacertian", by the way...) and processed)
• The spoons! These are Doctorish and arguably the most Doctorish instrument, not guitars or drums...
• an outcast being the catalyst for genocide in throwing out the only possible cure - Ikona isn't Cully, that's for sure
• The refreshingly different take on how to subdue a population, not the usual stompy stomp and direct pew-pew stuff that most stories using the trope gravitate toward
• Doc and Rani are both aged 953. Are they twins, fraternal or even identical - were Pip and Jane ahead of their time? They're hinting at something bit and/or obvious for sure
• Strange matter is a real thing, but lots of tidbits in this story are or based on it, despite other issues
• The incidental music is quite good. Upbeat yet melancholic
• the visual effects are generally fantastic, dated mostly by the editing equipment in which they were made (the blu-ray revealing interlace pattering from composited layering, etc, but they hold up quite well.)
• Mixed maxims, of which some are comedic to varying effect, and others which have a serious undertone worth of the "dark Doctor" persona that would begin to solidify in season 25
• etc

Yeah, the story is sprinkled with lots of little but poignant things that try to compensate for some iffy plot logic and other downers, such as:

• Rocket launcher with fixed/static trajectory, forcing a locked-in deadline - even a genius can miss the obvious at times, but here's it's used cheaply as a plot device, tick tock goes the clock.
• Tetraps with four eyes but they don't exactly use at least one of them, or three considering how often they turn their heads to the left and right then center again
• The Doctor, in any incarnation, would not fall for the Rani's obvious trick in exchanging companion for vital machine component. Maybe Seven is still recovering from the amnesia-inducing drug she gave him.
• Rani comes across more as the Master; less dispassionate behavior than ever before, or since
• Apart from age-dropping, what's the point of it as it's not addressed? (Or are we left to ponder...) This isn't Star Wars and family affairs are generally uninteresting, and at least Darth already had such a strong presence... but in a movie that easily could have ended its 1977 installment with "there's no such thing as the force, just your acuteness for spatial distances and seeing the exhaust port as a glorified wamprat", but before I digress
• As the sets' overdone triangle motif reminds, a triangle is not a good music Doctory instrument, but they didn't go there. Thankfully. The sets alone are borderline-campy enough in trying to be "hip", and season 24 has only started...
• The Doctor babbles to himself about "my seventh persona", which contradicts "The Brain of Morbius" and one or two other times that the Doctor, in seriousness or in jest, alludes to having had more lives in the past (the facetiousness needing a grain of salt prevailing, of course... Hartnell may be the 'first', but the only times these are codified as canon are during the mid-70s through mid-80s, and "time can be rewritten" - a large enough event could make alterations to the Gallifreyans as well and they wouldn't know it. There. Problem of discontinuity resolved. The show had addressed that in recent years as well.)
• The Rani's new TARDIS interior is one big blob of CGI is a definite downer

Yeah, it doesn't induce a puddle of tears and is sometimes difficult to watch. But there's more bubbling under the veneer of 80s fad and fashion. For me, it's better than its reputation, but not by too much. It manages a 6/10 due to some of the set-pieces compensating for less-effective elements. But it's not a terrible story by any measure, even if it's ultimately not one of the best post-regeneration ones.

 

[Christopher]

More, about Mel accepting the Doctor; she still does so and then states "Oh, I know all about regeneration" -- from where? Headcanon mode could hark back to her listening to the Master adumbrate the Valeyard's origin. It's a little loose, but not enough.

Remember, we never saw most of Mel's adventures with the Sixth Doctor. We met her in a flashfoward from the Doctor's future, after she'd been traveling with him for a while, and then Baker was fired so we never got to see the story where they met. So they could've had any number of adventures offscreen (and the audios, novels, and comics have certainly given them plenty, as well as giving Six multiple other companions in the period after "Trial of a Time Lord" and before Mel first met him from her perspective).

Kidnapping the Doctor (a shame the regeneration induced was so weak, though some headcanon regarding the Rani's TARDIS-hijacking lasergun-with-perfect-accuracy-there that would only knock out lesser species but cause a forced regeneration to time lor-- eh, that's a bit of a stretch... )

According to Pip & Jane Baker's novelization of their script, "Assaulted by the dissonant bedlam, propelled violently from side to side by the giddy oscillations, Mel collapsed near her overturned exercise bike shortly before the Doctor spun reeling, head first, into the plinth of the console." So he was mortally injured by severe head trauma.

Replacement for a faulty component in the Rani's equipment (by using a grown and fermented material or plastic, taken from the remains of a dead Lakyrtian (compare to "Lacertian", by the way...) and processed)

It was spelled Lakertyan. They do have a reptilian appearance, so I suppose the Bakers could've derived the name from "lacertian" ("lizardlike"). After all, they called the four-eyed aliens Tetraps, and in their novelization, they not only just used backward English for the Tetraps' language, but actually told the readers that was what it was in-universe, which is the stupidest thing I've ever read in a Doctor Who novel.

The spoons! These are Doctorish and arguably the most Doctorish instrument, not guitars or drums...

The Second Doctor had his recorder. Not a lot of Doctors have been musically inclined, it seems.

Doc and Rani are both aged 953. Are they twins, fraternal or even identical - were Pip and Jane ahead of their time? They're hinting at something bit and/or obvious for sure

I think it was just that she, the Doctor, and the Master had all been childhood friends, so it made sense to say that they were in the same year at school. (Not that the Doctor's age ever made sense. Given that he lived for subjective centuries between this and "Rose," how come he's back to 900 there?)

Strange matter is a real thing, but lots of tidbits in this story are or based on it, despite other issues

Well, it's a real hypothetical thing. It hasn't been directly observed yet.

The Doctor babbles to himself about "my seventh persona", which contradicts "The Brain of Morbius" and one or two other times that the Doctor, in seriousness or in jest, alludes to having had more lives in the past (the facetiousness needing a grain of salt prevailing, of course... Hartnell may be the 'first', but the only times these are codified as canon are during the mid-70s through mid-80s, and "time can be rewritten" - a large enough event could make alterations to the Gallifreyans as well and they wouldn't know it. There. Problem of discontinuity resolved. The show had addressed that in recent years as well.)

I think that's imposing too many retroactive ideas onto it. "The Brain of Morbius" is not the baseline to be contradicted -- at least, it wasn't until "The Timeless Children" re-established it 3 1/2 years ago. Before then, it was the exception to the baseline, the anomaly in a continuity that had repeatedly and explicitly established Hartnell's Doctor as "the original, you might say." Many of us back then handwaved the unidentified faces as Morbius's past lives rather than the Doctor's. The idea of time being malleable is also a latter-day idea introduced by Steven Moffat to handwave the inconsistencies between the classic and modern series, and the need to rewrite the classic series's version of Earth history from the 1970s onward.

At the time "Time and the Rani" came out, none of those ideas would've been established yet. The Doctor's line about being the Seventh is entirely consistent with "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" establishing Hartnell (or Hurndall) as the First, and with "Mawdryn Undead" confirming that Davison was the Fifth. "Morbius" was just a single-story continuity glitch in a series that never had much continuity anyway. It wasn't until decades later that people started spinning theories to rationalize it.

But it's not a terrible story by any measure, even if it's ultimately not one of the best post-regeneration ones.

I remember finding it pretty bad, but maybe that's largely because the novelization is horrible. Pip & Jane Baker were really bad novelizers, and not much better scriptwriters.

 

[Qonundrum]

Remember, we never saw most of Mel's adventures with the Sixth Doctor. We met her in a flashfoward from the Doctor's future, after she'd been traveling with him for a while, and then Baker was fired so we never got to see the story where they met. So they could've had any number of adventures offscreen (and the audios, novels, and comics have certainly given them plenty, as well as giving Six multiple other companions in the period after "Trial of a Time Lord" and before Mel first met him from her perspective).

Very true. Peri and the 5th Doctor definitely had as well, and what transpired between "seasons 23 and 24" could have led Mel to become more questioning of her desires to travel and resigned to screaming...

One thing dawned on me; the solstice may not have been an issue, if the Rani was figuring other star positions, relative mass, temperatures, and other factors where - if the asteroid was too far away from a planet, and so on - it would be useless. That may have been P&J's idea. The comedy, maxims, and spoons were not (JNT wanting the maxims and, IMHO, he wasn't wrong. At least for a while. McCoy makes them work, and they are a nice contrast to when the 6th Doctor said them verbatim...)

According to Pip & Jane Baker's novelization of their script, "Assaulted by the dissonant bedlam, propelled violently from side to side by the giddy oscillations, Mel collapsed near her overturned exercise bike shortly before the Doctor spun reeling, head first, into the plinth of the console." So he was mortally injured by severe head trauma.

Definitely a word salad... I usually liked going to the dictionary to read up on the words, but the times they went overboard still show. I vague recall their using "buffeted" and "tumult" as well. The latter isn't exactly dreadful, but too many people have ingrained 'buffet" regarding stuffing one's digestive tract with excessive amounts of food, rather than being bandied back and forth like one of those little balls in that Fischer Price popcorn mower toddler device thing...

But it must have been far worse than Mel just landing *plop* onto the floor... wouldn't be pleasant, either way. I love how some of the novels from the 1990s found a way to set the stage for 6 to start a regeneration process. I vaguely recall two... "Spiral Scratch" was one of the novels... I think "Killing Game" was another? Vague memories, but I loved both novels...

It was spelled Lakertyan. They do have a reptilian appearance, so I suppose the Bakers could've derived the name from "lacertian" ("lizardlike"). After all, they called the four-eyed aliens Tetraps, and in their novelization, they not only just used backward English for the Tetraps' language, but actually told the readers that was what it was in-universe, which is the stupidest thing I've ever read in a Doctor Who novel.

Just typing from memory, though it's unusual for me to not go and verify spelling beforehand... I must be regenerating but in a different way...

I forgot that the tetraps, in the novel, used backward English. I agree, it's stupid, and is definitely a bit much, IMHO, and may have been better-suited for a different story under ideal conditions. If nothing else, they were ahead of their time in having an alien species mangle English as a language. For more on this, see "Darmok".

The Second Doctor had his recorder. Not a lot of Doctors have been musically inclined, it seems.

Yup.

As much as Capaldi is an excellent player, and maybe this is a bias of mine, the Doctor has always been eccentric. Nothing screams eccentric less than a modern-looking electric guitar.

I think it was just that she, the Doctor, and the Master had all been childhood friends, so it made sense to say that they were in the same year at school. (Not that the Doctor's age ever made sense. Given that he lived for subjective centuries between this and "Rose," how come he's back to 900 there?)

Hehehehe! I agree that it likely was their being childhood friends/acquaintances/rivals/somethings and I'm definitely looking into it too much. I don't recall if they were asked about why P&J wrote in the age as being both his and the Rani's...

As for the centuries, it's definitely been as subjective as inconsistent. The 2nd Doctor said he was 450 years old. We can only guess how far Hartnell's span was before he regenerated due to (old age, combined with the TARDIS being a requirement, as confirmed in "The Power of the Daleks". ) The 4th said he was 750 years old, several times, citing 756 even in the Key to Time season but then glibly says "750" again in "The Leisure Hive", though Pangol's villainy of attempting to age him to death is still suitably creepy, but I digress: Throughout all of his 7 shown years, they weren't thinking too much into the age-flinging either.

"Over 900 years old" says the 6h.

Then "953" by 7. Why the 9th be so nonchalant and un-agocentric as simply saying 900 - that was one of the things that irked me the least, even if "1200" may have been more fun - but it wouldn't matter, since the humans would all be in envy anyway. He did say it, if I recall, as a hand-waived approximation and that's probably why. Between 7 and 9, there'd be far more than 953 on the proverbial odometer. Later incarnations I don't remember, but I think they're finally using quadruple-digits now...

Well, it's a real hypothetical thing. It hasn't been directly observed yet.

True. Theoretical science isn't quite science fact, nor is it complete science fantasy, hehe.

I think that's imposing too many retroactive ideas onto it. "The Brain of Morbius" is not the baseline to be contradicted -- at least, it wasn't until "The Timeless Children" re-established it 3 1/2 years ago. Before then, it was the exception to the baseline, the anomaly in a continuity that had repeatedly and explicitly established Hartnell's Doctor as "the original, you might say." Many of us back then handwaved the unidentified faces as Morbius's past lives rather than the Doctor's. The idea of time being malleable is also a latter-day idea introduced by Steven Moffat to handwave the inconsistencies between the classic and modern series, and the need to rewrite the classic series's version of Earth history from the 1970s onward.

^^this, on all counts.



It's a controversy that won't ever end, that's for sure. And Moffat had a difficult task to do, that's for sure.

At the time "Time and the Rani" came out, none of those ideas would've been established yet. The Doctor's line about being the Seventh is entirely consistent with "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" establishing Hartnell (or Hurndall) as the First, and with "Mawdryn Undead" confirming that Davison was the Fifth. "Morbius" was just a single-story continuity glitch in a series that never had much continuity anyway. It wasn't until decades later that people started spinning theories to rationalize it.

True, on all counts again.

I remember finding it pretty bad, but maybe that's largely because the novelization is horrible. Pip & Jane Baker were really bad novelizers, and not much better scriptwriters.

I liked P&J's ideas, but they didn't always get executed the best.

"The Mark of the Rani" has the acting and visuals to complement a mix of historical aspects hodgepodged together... plus that damn tree.

"Terror of the Vervoids" is easily their best for me, and the "trial-less" edit with added and revised footage is surprisingly sublime. A few bad f/x shots don't damper it too much... maybe I like ot more for certain bits of dialogue and playing with "animal vs plant life" in a way that's probably the genre's only time where you're almost terrified of the plants instead of laughing voraciously at it - see "The Great Vegetable Rebellion" from "Lost in Space" and "The Rules of Luton" from "Space 1999", especially if you need a good laugh. At least IMHO. They're truly horrible, but at least "Rebellion" has a comedic quality that works, and the cast commentary on the blu-ray is alone worthy of the boxset purchase. "Luton" is so po-faced with its inconsistencies and other issues, yet flat and soulless in execution, that it's beyond redemption. (It's been, what, a decade since I watched "Luton", but youtube reaction videos can cover that, hehe.)

"The Ultimate Foe" had to be made in a hurry, and it shows. Based on what's known of the original and intended finale, watching a glass of water try to evaporate in humid weather would be more compelling than the script JNT vetoed. (Not just because it ended on a cliffhanger that's even stupider than some of P&J's original ideas for "Time and the Rani", on top of what was written in the novelization.)

"Time and the Rani" -- still placing it above "Foe", but not by much, and despite "Foe" feeling less gaudy as a production - late-80s styles were generally far more garish than Colin's outfit... "Time", for me, still has more enjoyable when not intriguing set-pieces, but it's also twice as long.

 

[Christopher]

I vague recall their using "buffeted" and "tumult" as well. The latter isn't exactly dreadful, but too many people have ingrained 'buffet" regarding stuffing one's digestive tract with excessive amounts of food, rather than being bandied back and forth like one of those little balls in that Fischer Price popcorn mower toddler device thing...

That's pronounced differently. "Buffet" is a perfectly common word for being shaken or knocked around forcefully.

But it must have been far worse than Mel just landing *plop* onto the floor... wouldn't be pleasant, either way.

She was out on the open floor with only the exercise bike nearby. It might've been painful, but not remotely as bad as the Doctor hitting his head on the console plinth.

As much as Capaldi is an excellent player, and maybe this is a bias of mine, the Doctor has always been eccentric. Nothing screams eccentric less than a modern-looking electric guitar.

I just see that as the tradition of actors bringing their own style to playing the Doctor. The spoons were something McCoy did in his stage shows before he became the Doctor.

As for the centuries, it's definitely been as subjective as inconsistent. The 2nd Doctor said he was 450 years old. We can only guess how far Hartnell's span was before he regenerated due to (old age, combined with the TARDIS being a requirement, as confirmed in "The Power of the Daleks". ) The 4th said he was 750 years old, several times, citing 756 even in the Key to Time season but then glibly says "750" again in "The Leisure Hive", though Pangol's villainy of attempting to age him to death is still suitably creepy, but I digress: Throughout all of his 7 shown years, they weren't thinking too much into the age-flinging either.

"Over 900 years old" says the 6h.

Then "953" by 7.

Except there's no way 500 years could've passed between those incarnations, because the Doctor spent most of those lifetimes in the continuous company of human companions who didn't visibly age, so the elapsed time in-story (relative to the Doctor's personal timeline) couldn't have been much more than the elapsed time in real life. The only real gaps are between "The War Games" and "Spearhead from Space" (if you squint a little or subscribe to the "Season 6B" theory), between "The Deadly Assassin" and "The Face of Evil" (though Dicks's novelization of "Face" clearly states it's shortly after he left Gallifrey), and during his time with Romana (because she would age as slowly as he does), as well as the unchronicled time between "The Ultimate Foe" and "Time and the Rani." And as I've said before, the idea that the Doctor spent centuries in those gaps between the 20-odd years he spent with his onscreen companions is distasteful to me, because it feels like it trivializes his relationships with those companions. I mean, yeah, the Doctor certainly lived centuries before and after, but this is the span we got to see, so I want to feel it's the most important parts of this phase of the Doctor's existence, not just a few brief snatches out of a far longer span.

I always figured the Doctor just made up arbitrary figures for their age. After all, not only does the Doctor travel in time, but different planets have different year lengths anyway, so a numerical age is basically meaningless for an interstellar and intertemporal traveler.

"The Ultimate Foe" had to be made in a hurry, and it shows.

What gets me is the serious drop in writing quality between Holmes's Part 1 and the Bakers' Part 2.

 

[Mr Awe]

According to Pip & Jane Baker's novelization of their script, "Assaulted by the dissonant bedlam, propelled violently from side to side by the giddy oscillations, Mel collapsed near her overturned exercise bike shortly before the Doctor spun reeling, head first, into the plinth of the console." So he was mortally injured by severe head trauma.

Yikes, more likely it was the trauma from that overwrought sentence in the novel that did him in!

 

[diankra]

They weren't the best writers, but did better scripts than books.

 

[Qonundrum]

That's pronounced differently. "Buffet" is a perfectly common word for being shaken or knocked around forcefully.

Very true. Especially in the UK... But, especially nowadays with so many words having overlapping meanings, it's refreshing that it's not a new phenomenon. And people were complaining back in the day, but that's inevitable.

She was out on the open floor with only the exercise bike nearby. It might've been painful, but not remotely as bad as the Doctor hitting his head on the console plinth.

I just see that as the tradition of actors bringing their own style to playing the Doctor. The spoons were something McCoy did in his stage shows before he became the Doctor.

Good points. Each has their own, but I still prefer the Doctor being eccentric and not "mainstream" or "accessible". Sci-fi prevailing, most shows already embrace the mainstream. Some shows surely can be different? They're the most refreshing, but they also take more work to become interesting for casual/mainstream/etc audiences and that's the tricky part.

Except there's no way 500 years could've passed between those incarnations, because the Doctor spent most of those lifetimes in the continuous company of human companions who didn't visibly age, so the elapsed time in-story (relative to the Doctor's personal timeline) couldn't have been much more than the elapsed time in real life. The only real gaps are between "The War Games" and "Spearhead from Space" (if you squint a little or subscribe to the "Season 6B" theory), between "The Deadly Assassin" and "The Face of Evil" (though Dicks's novelization of "Face" clearly states it's shortly after he left Gallifrey), and during his time with Romana (because she would age as slowly as he does), as well as the unchronicled time between "The Ultimate Foe" and "Time and the Rani." And as I've said before, the idea that the Doctor spent centuries in those gaps between the 20-odd years he spent with his onscreen companions is distasteful to me, because it feels like it trivializes his relationships with those companions. I mean, yeah, the Doctor certainly lived centuries before and after, but this is the span we got to see, so I want to feel it's the most important parts of this phase of the Doctor's existence, not just a few brief snatches out of a far longer span.

Good points, all.

I always figured the Doctor just made up arbitrary figures for their age. After all, not only does the Doctor travel in time, but different planets have different year lengths anyway, so a numerical age is basically meaningless for an interstellar and intertemporal traveler.

+1 The Doctor definitely has some vanity going on, hehe!

What gets me is the serious drop in writing quality between Holmes's Part 1 and the Bakers' Part 2.

Eric Saward had originally written that last episode. JNT vetoed it, and Saward threatened retribution if the replacement writer(s) saw even a single syllable. There is a quality drop, and even part one is not the greatest - apart from the Valeyard revelation...

 

[Qonundrum]

"PARADISE TOWERS"

For a show trying to get away from links to the past and, indeed, the occasional review of this story saying it's refreshing to have a story with no links to the past, there's a reference to the swimming pool that was jettisoned and only because it developed a leak. In such a spacecraft, there's bound to be a backup tank or something, but this is minutiae... especially when the dialogue is almost tokenism and designed to be brief, allow introduction and namedropping of other species, and to segue to the actual plot sooner.

I love how the makers balanced the lighting so that the videotape can pick up enough details without looking too noisy.

There's a lot of worldbuilding in this.

The walls are dirty. Sci-fi almost always has everything sparkling clean. This, with other juxtapositions between the robot Cleaners and how they're not cleaning, and various factions, makes this interesting from the get-go. On the other hand, the Rezzies' apartment looked surprisingly pristine, almost as good as the pool.

Where do the Kangs get their tailoring done? All three or how many factions from where? It's a little convenient, but not a biggie...

Yellow Kangs are the best. We don't see many - much less any - but the one we do does some respectable acting.

McCoy took notes from Pertwee's saying "hi" to chickens and other animals he talks about in "Carnival of Monsters", "Peladon", and so on, by saying "hi" to a piece of tall machinery. It's silly, but "you never can tell" one-ups Pertwee's line about what might be sentient without realizing it.

The "How you do" scene is fantastic, selling some uneasiness that even the viewer gets to share with the Doctor and Mel.

The over-the-top use of the triangle motif, even for oversized elevator doors, risks turning a potential horror/thriller into a cartoon.

Richard Briers goes from sinister to cartoonish way too often. Indeed, scenes show other actors corpsing a little too often.

The visage of Kroagnon's prison, complete with literal 80s neon for eyeballs, seals the deal in confirming the cartoonish feel of the story. I wish this were done in season 26.

Pex was supposed to be a parody of 80s musclebound action heroes, not unlke WhizzKid being a parody of a section of fans (or how most of "Greatest Show" digs at everyone in one form or another.) Even if they found a musclebound actor, would Pex have been successful if nothing more than a parody? No. Pex, as played by Howard Cooke, adds some badly needed gravitas and in acting above the role's intent to make it his own, even if he's not musclebound in appearance.

If you want parody, look at the Caretakers themselves and how they're overacted. On top of that, Season 24 also has a knack of using stereotype helmets for baddies that's on par with the grossly overused triangle motif. Yes, we get it, the new version of the show is hip and trendy. Whee.

The Rezzies are well-acted in particular, and suitably creepy. Indeed, given the edict of "no violence" thanks to season 22, season 24 has a ton of violence and gore. Within a campy presentation, presumably to hide how nasty a lot of the material is, since cannibalism, stabbing, genocide, and x number of items across the season dare to make season 22 look like an episode of Mr Rogers by comparison. it's incredibly weird, but clearly potential exists.

The hand of Cartmel can be felt in this story, even if only slightly so.

For potential and as well-realized as it could be given season 24's constraints, it's 7/10 and arguably the best of the season when you add in the innovations. Could have been 9/10 and likely would be in season 26.

 

[Christopher]

I like "Paradise Towers" better than a lot of people did. It's broad, yes, but I like the worldbuilding. I'm a sucker for an invented argot, and there's a kind of poetry to the slang here.

 

[jaime]

A Venusian aikido move?

He does Mordred the same in Battlefield.

 

[jaime]

"PARADISE TOWERS"

For a show trying to get away from links to the past and, indeed, the occasional review of this story saying it's refreshing to have a story with no links to the past, there's a reference to the swimming pool that was jettisoned and only because it developed a leak. In such a spacecraft, there's bound to be a backup tank or something, but this is minutiae... especially when the dialogue is almost tokenism and designed to be brief, allow introduction and namedropping of other species, and to segue to the actual plot sooner.

I love how the makers balanced the lighting so that the videotape can pick up enough details without looking too noisy.

There's a lot of worldbuilding in this.

The walls are dirty. Sci-fi almost always has everything sparkling clean. This, with other juxtapositions between the robot Cleaners and how they're not cleaning, and various factions, makes this interesting from the get-go. On the other hand, the Rezzies' apartment looked surprisingly pristine, almost as good as the pool.

Where do the Kangs get their tailoring done? All three or how many factions from where? It's a little convenient, but not a biggie...

Yellow Kangs are the best. We don't see many - much less any - but the one we do does some respectable acting.

McCoy took notes from Pertwee's saying "hi" to chickens and other animals he talks about in "Carnival of Monsters", "Peladon", and so on, by saying "hi" to a piece of tall machinery. It's silly, but "you never can tell" one-ups Pertwee's line about what might be sentient without realizing it.

The "How you do" scene is fantastic, selling some uneasiness that even the viewer gets to share with the Doctor and Mel.

The over-the-top use of the triangle motif, even for oversized elevator doors, risks turning a potential horror/thriller into a cartoon.

Richard Briers goes from sinister to cartoonish way too often. Indeed, scenes show other actors corpsing a little too often.

The visage of Kroagnon's prison, complete with literal 80s neon for eyeballs, seals the deal in confirming the cartoonish feel of the story. I wish this were done in season 26.

Pex was supposed to be a parody of 80s musclebound action heroes, not unlke WhizzKid being a parody of a section of fans (or how most of "Greatest Show" digs at everyone in one form or another.) Even if they found a musclebound actor, would Pex have been successful if nothing more than a parody? No. Pex, as played by Howard Cooke, adds some badly needed gravitas and in acting above the role's intent to make it his own, even if he's not musclebound in appearance.

If you want parody, look at the Caretakers themselves and how they're overacted. On top of that, Season 24 also has a knack of using stereotype helmets for baddies that's on par with the grossly overused triangle motif. Yes, we get it, the new version of the show is hip and trendy. Whee.

The Rezzies are well-acted in particular, and suitably creepy. Indeed, given the edict of "no violence" thanks to season 22, season 24 has a ton of violence and gore. Within a campy presentation, presumably to hide how nasty a lot of the material is, since cannibalism, stabbing, genocide, and x number of items across the season dare to make season 22 look like an episode of Mr Rogers by comparison. it's incredibly weird, but clearly potential exists.

The hand of Cartmel can be felt in this story, even if only slightly so.

For potential and as well-realized as it could be given season 24's constraints, it's 7/10 and arguably the best of the season when you add in the innovations. Could have been 9/10 and likely would be in season 26.

Pex works better as *thinking* he is muscle bound, and even as the other residents treating him as such — he’s someone who was too weak to go fight in a conscripted war (much like the caretakers) he is basically Pike from Dad’s Army, with a dash of that survivalist type we see later in — funnily enough — survival.

The Cartmel Era is full of good ideas that don’t always land.

Going back to Ace and Rose though, Rose is basically Ace but straightened out with slightly less melodrama (Ace never knew her dad, and hates her mum — Rose lost her father and loves her mum. In both cases the mums are stereotypes though. Aces — in the mentions we later get — is actually more realistic mind you.) and none of the Timey-Wimey stuff. Some of that is cultural differences between the eighties and the two-kays, and some of it is from RTD. He does often go to the ‘council estate’ well (see his NA) but Rose isn’t a delinquent, whereas Ace absolutely is. She is actually *still* the most realistic companion we’ve ever had, which is hilarious all things considered — Bill and Clara come close, but are harder to get a handle on in some ways. Ryan and Graham too to some extent, but there’s not enough depth hinted at.