Lanthanites. Canon, speculation, questions, wishful thinking.

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

Plonking this here as with SFA launching, we now have two Lanthanites in canon.

I mean - what do we know. Has it been clarified if they are aliens who arrived on Earth millenia ago, or a subset of homo sapiens, or somewhere between these.

Uhurua mentions "the accent" on SNW - will that be retconned out now that Holly Hunter is using her southern drawl?

Wishful thinking - I think it would be rather cool if it transpires that only the female Lanthanites are long-lived, and the men live a lifespan approximate to humans of their era.

Random thoughts, would like to hear yours.....

 

[NCC-73515]

I'd like to know if Flint was one, and why they didn't simply keep using El-Aurians

 

[Christopher]

Plonking this here as with SFA launching, we now have two Lanthanites in canon.

I mean - what do we know. Has it been clarified if they are aliens who arrived on Earth millenia ago, or a subset of homo sapiens, or somewhere between these.

Captain Ake is reportedly half-Lanthanite, and implicitly half-human, so I guess that means they're aliens.

Uhurua mentions "the accent" on SNW - will that be retconned out now that Holly Hunter is using her southern drawl?

It makes little sense that a subculture hidden among Earth's population for millennia would have only a single accent among them. Uhura may have been referring to Pelia's accent being a hodgepodge of different influences over the eras. And since Ake is only half-Lanthanite, her accent could come from her (presumably) human parent.

I'd like to know if Flint was one, and why they didn't simply keep using El-Aurians

I wondered about Flint, but since Lanthanites are common knowledge a decade before TOS, McCoy would've just said "he's a Lanthanite" when he explained he was immortal. Indeed, that's my whole problem with the Lanthanite concept -- it undermines the premise that Flint's immortality was unique, and particularly that he despaired of ever finding an immortal companion to ease his loneliness. You'd think that in 6000 years, he would've run across a Lanthanite or two.

El-Aurians are from somewhere near or in the Delta Quadrant, and aside from the odd intrepid wanderer like Guinan, most of them didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant until 2293 when the Enterprise-B rescued their refugee ships (well, one of them) in Generations. Besides, while El-Aurians can live for centuries, I don't think they're supposed to be nigh-immortal. Holly Hunter said in an interview that full Lanthanites might be immortal, while a hybrid like Ake migh live 3000 years. Although she says Ake is only 422 years old, which is a relief, since I was afraid they'd have her constantly referencing experiences from the ENT/TOS/TNG eras. Instead, they can use her life story as an opportunity to fill in the unchronicled centuries before DSC/SFA, and build new continuity rather than just referencing the old. (And they already have Reno and the Doctor to cover the TOS/TNG-era references.)

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

Captain Ake is reportedly half-Lanthanite, and implicitly half-human, so I guess that means they're aliens.

As an aside to this, I notice that in Trek to date we only seen 50:50 hybridisation of most species from what I can tell. The only time we see an F2 scenario is when Klingons are involved. I can't think of any others.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

It makes little sense that a subculture hidden among Earth's population for millennia would have only a single accent among them. Uhura may have been referring to Pelia's accent being a hodgepodge of different influences over the eras. And since Ake is only half-Lanthanite, her accent could come from her (presumably) human parent.

I think she says something like "I recognise that accent - you're Lanthanite" or similar.

 

[Christopher]

As an aside to this, I notice that in Trek to date we only seen 50:50 hybridisation of most species from what I can tell. The only time we see an F2 scenario is when Klingons are involved. I can't think of any others.

I had to look up "F2 hybrid." Apparently it's a term from botany referring to the second-generation offspring of F1 hybrid plants. I think to apply to humanoids, it would have to be a case where both parents were the same half-and-half mix, e.g. two Vulcan-human hybrids. That doesn't seem like it would happen very often.

I guess by "when Klingons are involved," you're referring to Alexander Rozhenko (3/4 Klingon and 1/4 human) and Miral Paris (vice-versa). As for non-Klingon examples, we've seen several characters who were 3/4 human and 1/4 Betazoid: Devinoni Ral from TNG: "The Price," Walter Pierce from TNG: "Eye of the Beholder," and Thaddeus and Kestra Troi-Riker from Picard. Neelix and his sister Alixia were 7/8 Talaxian and 1/8 Mylean. Simon Tarses from TNG: "The Drumhead" was 3/4 human and 1/4 Romulan. President Laira Rillak in Discovery was a mix of human, Bajoran, and Cardassian, with her human ancestry being several generations back. And we saw other instances in alternate futures like DS9: "Children of Time" and ENT: "E^2." Several far-future temporal agents in ENT were multispecies hybrids, and DSC and SFA are following suit in showing a lot of hybridization in the 32nd century.

I think she says something like "I recognise that accent - you're Lanthanite" or similar.

Actually it was "That's the accent. You're Lanthanite." Uhura was struggling to place it, which is why I'm thinking it's not a single definitive accent but more a type of accent. She could've been speaking imprecisely.

 

[The Wormhole]

Uhurua mentions "the accent" on SNW - will that be retconned out now that Holly Hunter is using her southern drawl?

As mentioned, Holly Hunter's character is only supposed to be half-Lanthanite, which I guess is how they're going to explain the accent. Yes, I know, that's not how accents work. Except in Star Trek, it apparently is. Well, fiction in general anyway. After all, a majority of Clonetroopers in Star Wars never even met Jango Fett, yet they all have his New Zealand accent.

 

[Tosk]

Flashbacks to Deanna's accent that was assumed to be Betazoid until it quickly wasn't.

I wouldn't even bother to address the accent. Uhura couldn't place it until she found out that Pelia was really old, so whatever it is that she vaguely recognized it doesn't have to be something we viewers can identify.

 

[The Wormhole]

Flashbacks to Deanna's accent that was assumed to be Betazoid until it quickly wasn't.

After Lwaxana was introduced, everyone said the accent came from Deanna's father. Then her father didn't have one either.

 

[Set Harth]

After all, a majority of Clonetroopers in Star Wars never even met Jango Fett, yet they all have his New Zealand accent.

iirc that was supposed to be semi-explained by flash training the clones received (and possibly the use of trainers with the same accent?)

 

[Christopher]

Yes, I know, that's not how accents work. Except in Star Trek, it apparently is.

Not necessarily. Spock has an American accent (Boston-tinged for Nimoy's Spock), but Sarek has either a mid-Atlantic accent (Lenard), an English accent (Cross), or an American accent (Frain, even though he's actually English). Then there's T'Pau, who had an American accent in the 22nd century (Zediker) and a thick Austrian accent in the 23rd (Lovsky). (I tend to assume that in Enterprise, T'Pau was speaking Vulcan and we heard it translated into American-accented English, but in "Amok Time" she was speaking English with a Vulcan regional accent that happened to sound Austrian.)

 

[Ronald Held]

Is it to much SUS to have Ake be an offspring of Pella?

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

Is it to much SUS to have Ake be an offspring of Pella?

Which raises a whole other question. Descendant? - maybe. Offspring? that needs a dive into whether Lanthanites ever hit menopause, if they're near-immortal, then when would it kick in??? Or maybe (like cats) they are forever fertile, which raises the prospect of a Pelia labour scene to come in SNW.

Well look, I brought us back onto topic!

 

[Verteron]

As an aside to this, I notice that in Trek to date we only seen 50:50 hybridisation of most species from what I can tell. The only time we see an F2 scenario is when Klingons are involved. I can't think of any others.

Aside from the Klingon second generation hybrids, we saw at least three Human/Betazoid second generation Hybrids, Kestra Troi-Riker, Walter Pierce and Devinoni Ral, all of whom were ¾ Human, ¼ Betazoid.

In an unrealised future we also saw Andrew Kim (¾ Human, ¼ Ocampa).

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I'd really like if it was retconned that the Lanthanites were related to El-Aurians. I honestly don't see any difference between the two, and don't understand why they didn't just make Pelia an El-Aurian. (Maybe they El-Aurians aren't supposed to be in contact with the Federation yet?) The only notable difference is that Lanthanites are specific to Earth.

In any case, I think there's a Lanthanite (or El-Aurian) on Voyager! Actor John Copage played Lt. Elliott in the Original Series. Then he was a background science officer on TNG, and again on "Voyager." And nothing onboard Voyager seems to phase him, not even in the Year of Hell. Being a Lanthanite would explain all of that. The only question would be why he's still lower-decks all these years later, and why he switched from command to the science department. Maybe he had some bad experiences in the Klingon/Federation War that made him decide he didn't want to be in command after all.

 

[Tosk]

Aside from the Klingon second generation hybrids, we saw at least three Human/Betazoid second generation Hybrids, Kestra Troi-Riker, Walter Pierce and Devinoni Ral, all of whom were ¾ Human, ¼ Betazoid.

In an unrealised future we also saw Andrew Kim (¾ Human, ¼ Ocampa).

Not to mention a whole mess of different ratio hybrids in Children of Time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I imagine they wanted to keep away from the Borg massacre, happening around the time of SNW, and keep away from the magic stuff hinted at in TNG and established in PIC.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

I honestly don't see any difference between the two, and don't understand why they didn't just make Pelia an El-Aurian. (Maybe they El-Aurians aren't supposed to be in contact with the Federation yet?) The only notable difference is that Lanthanites are specific to Earth.

I think it's been established that El Aurians live lifespans which are in the hundreds or maybe low thousands, but still have finite lifetimes which can be considered mortal. They have a sixth sense regarding temporal displacement, and are also apparently equipped various other tricks. They mostly hadn't reached the AQ by the time of SNW other than a few like Guinan who pushed further, and they are tied in closely to the Borg. They go for a more chilled zen sage vibe.

Lanthanites on the other hand, established as living thousands or tens of thousands of years - being "near-immortal". They have been in contact with and around humanity, embedded (albeit cryptically for much of that time) and go for more of a disruptor / boho vibe when out in the open. I see it as the difference between human middle age and later geriatric. I notice Lanthanites collect and hoard trinkets and retro items,

I don't think it's any hassle having 2 very different races of long lived humanoids; any more than it might be that we see another symbiotic race. To a certain extent Trilldom has been turned on its head in this era - more symbionts than appropriate hosts, xeno-specific joinings etc.

With the supposed date of the major Borg attack being 2265, it would have made SNW (if in theory it ran that far ahead) have to reconcile the attack with there being an El Aurian crewmember on board - a possibility for some good storytelling, but also the potential for complexity when interweaving.

Just as a question - can anyone remind me of how Guinan ended up both being in the 1800s Earth and also on the Lakul in 2293? When did she return home and how did she get there?

 

[Verteron]

Just as a question - can anyone remind me of how Guinan ended up both being in the 1800s Earth and also on the Lakul in 2293? When did she return home and how did she get there?

It's never explained on screen, but even if takes 50 years here and 50 years back, this might be considered a fine amount of time to spend exploring for a young El Aurian given their millennia-long lifepans. As a species they may have had access to superior propulsion technology, the knowledge of which could have been lost during the Borg conquest of their world.

 

[Christopher]

I think it's been established that El Aurians live lifespans which are in the hundreds or maybe low thousands, but still have finite lifetimes which can be considered mortal. They have a sixth sense regarding temporal displacement, and are also apparently equipped various other tricks.

A deleted line from Generations established that Guinan's time displacement sense was not an innate ability of her species, but a result of her time in the Nexus.

Just as a question - can anyone remind me of how Guinan ended up both being in the 1800s Earth and also on the Lakul in 2293? When did she return home and how did she get there?

A ship as fast as Voyager could've made the trip in a few decades, an easy commute by El-Aurian standards. Even with Picard season 2 claiming that Guinan was still on Earth in the 2020s, that's plenty of time for her to get back home before the 23rd century.