Ladies Man or Just Easy Women?

[2takesfrakes]

What's your opinion on this:

We all know that Captain Kirk's had a lot of women. A lot of women. One we know he got pregnant, out of wedlock ... and where there's one, there may be more. But it always seemed to me that it wasn't so much to do with Kirk's having a good pick-up line and smooth moves, as much as it was to do with the fact that all of these women he's had were ... easy. Women who would give themselves to any man who didn't fall below their standards - willingly! They thought he looked cute in his pajamas and that's all it took.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

What's your opinion on this:

We all know that Captain Kirk's had a lot of women. A lot of women. One we know he got pregnant, out of wedlock ... and where there's one, there may be more. But it always seemed to me that it wasn't so much to do with Kirk's having a good pick-up line and smooth moves, as much as it was to do with the fact that all of these women he's had were ... easy. Women who would give themselves to any man who didn't fall below their standards - willingly! They thought he looked cute in his pajamas and that's all it took.

It did seem that Kirk was pretty smitten with some women as well (e.g. Rayna, who actually was an android and Lenore, who seduced Kirk very quickly that Kirk forgot to pursue the Anton Karidian matter for a time...lol...which gave her the upper hand).

With Drusilla (from 'Bread and Circuses') as hot as she was, her purpose was to satisfy men who fought in the games. I don't recall her being emotionally involved with Kirk.

Andrea was 'easy' because she was just being introduced to male/female relations.

That's it off the top of my head, I'm sure some other posters will give their thoughts.

 

[Amaris]

What's your opinion on this:

We all know that Captain Kirk's had a lot of women. A lot of women. One we know he got pregnant, out of wedlock ... and where there's one, there may be more. But it always seemed to me that it wasn't so much to do with Kirk's having a good pick-up line and smooth moves, as much as it was to do with the fact that all of these women he's had were ... easy. Women who would give themselves to any man who didn't fall below their standards - willingly! They thought he looked cute in his pajamas and that's all it took.

You're making a lot of baseless assumptions here.

1) We don't know whether he slept with " a lot" of women, or not. There isn't any supportive evidence of such, only instances where he may have slept with a few, and even if he slept with "many," that does not indicate anything negative about his character, or that of the others.

2) We're watching a show that is edited to show only the interesting parts of the adventure. For all we know, the romantic scene we're watching occurred after a number of dates, or just a casual encounter.

3) To assume that a woman, or a man, who willingly has sex is "easy," does a disservice to such people, and paints them in a wholly undeserved negative light. The proposition that women who want, and get, sex are somehow easy shows an attitude rooted in ignorance, and traditionalism against women. It is an unfair judgment against them.

4) You cast aspersions on their motives. You assume that they simply thought he was cute, or looked hot, and therefore had to have him, indicating that they had no control over their base desires, which is another idea rooted in ignorance, and traditionalism.

I would ask, politely, that you please not make posts that objectify, judge, and debase women. It is not at all forward thinking, and is a practice that needs to end.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Great comments, so far! Keep them coming ...

 

[Commishsleer]

I don't think Carol Marcus or Janice Lester would be regarded as 'easy' in any context.

I don't think that any of the women Kirk encountered were regarded as 'easy' even in the 60s. None of the evil alien princesses he attempted to seduce even really fell for his lines.

In the 80s maybe some people would have regarded Carol Marcus as 'easy' because she had a baby out of wedlock. Not Kirk but just Carol Marcus because that was the sexist way that some people thought at the time. I mean who the heck cares now whether people are married are not.

If you look at Picard sleeping with Vash after knowing her for 5 hours or so, who is the 'easy' one in that case?
And Riker, Hoshi and Troi had at least one one-night stand in the series.

Its difficult to actual pinpoint Kirk as a serial seducer because it was the 60s and we only have evidence that he actually slept with 2 people and one of them he was married to.

 

[Gov Kodos]

What's your opinion on this:

the fact that all of these women he's had were ... easy.

This is repellent misogynistic nonsense.

Great comments, so far! Keep them coming ...

And this reply to J is simply insufficient and dodges defending the odious description of women in your opening post which he criticized quite soundly.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

@Kodos: I think the original post was written as bait to get a volley started.

Kirk did not have "a lot of women," especially for a man with his looks, prestige, and socio-economic status. He slept with Carol Marcus and possibly Janet Wallace (prior to "WNM" he had a thing for blonde science babes), Helen Johannson (prior to "The Menagerie"), Miramanee, possibly the slave Drusilla, possibly the real Ruth (prior to "Shore Leave"), probably Janice Lester, and he had a quickie with Deela of Scalos. Alright, so he wasn't doing too bad. But he wasn't a hound about it.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Shouldn't we add Odona from Gideon to the list? They kiss on the Bridge, leave it and - apparently somewhat later - leave Kirk's cabin in a rather good and cheerful mood...

I don't think he was just showing her his medals.

After "This Side of Paradise" I found "Mark of Gideon" to be rather weird. Kirk seems to accept his apparent fate - stranded with Odona in space aboard the Enterprise - rather too quickly.
Maybe the council of Gideon had somehow acquired Elasian teardrops and exposed Kirk to it.

Bob

 

[Amaris]

Great comments, so far! Keep them coming ...

Do you not have any intention of answering the points I've raised?

 

[Commishsleer]

Shouldn't we add Odona from Gideon to the list? They kiss on the Bridge, leave it and - apparently somewhat later - leave Kirk's cabin in a rather good and cheerful mood...

I don't think he was just showing her his medals.

After "This Side of Paradise" I found "Mark of Gideon" to be rather weird. Kirk seems to accept his apparent fate - stranded with Odona in space aboard the Enterprise - rather too quickly.
Maybe the council of Gideon had somehow acquired Elasian teardrops and exposed Kirk to it.

Bob

'Mark of Gideon' - one of the worst episodes ever.
I suppose this is one episode where a woman bested Kirk.

Because Kirk lets his blood be used to kill billions so that the remaining billions can live in paradise over the bodies of their dead brothers and sisters I suppose.

I remember one episode in TNG where Riker refused to let his stolen DNA be used to save a civilisation.

You'd think Kirk would have done the same and given them a big lecture to boot (like how they could find another planet or ask the Federation for contraception help)

 

[YellowSubmarine]

3) To assume that a woman, or a man, who willingly has sex is "easy," does a disservice to such people, and paints them in a wholly undeserved negative light. The proposition that women who want, and get, sex are somehow easy shows an attitude rooted in ignorance, and traditionalism against women. It is an unfair judgment against them.

And even if we went there, Kirk is the one who has supposedly been with a lot of women, not the women he's been with. How on Earth did the qualification "easy" land on the women, and not on Kirk?

It's James Fucking T. Kirk. The one and only. Beat the Kobayashi Maru, saved the universe seven times, tricks the Romulans for breakfast and made Data laugh twice. That new Enterprise married him on their first date, and then remarried him on the night after their divorce. Agent Daniels violated the Temporal Prime Directive to get him in bed. I don't like men, and even I might. Being with him hardly makes the one sleeping with him easy. Kirk on the other hand...

What do I get from this? A woman is easy if she sleeps with the man at the top of the fleet (yeah, even the admirals), but a man is not even if he slept with every time agent disguised as a janitor to get him. I know that the world revolves around sexist double standards, but one could have picked a lower-profile figure to make it less obvious.

Come on people, for a person to be easy, they need to sleep with a person who has nothing going on about them, say... Minuet.

(Forgive me, Min, The Doctor hadn't yet asserted your personhood at the time I was writing this.)

 

[Robert Comsol]

'Mark of Gideon' - one of the worst episodes ever.
I suppose this is one episode where a woman bested Kirk.

Because Kirk lets his blood be used to kill billions so that the remaining billions can live in paradise over the bodies of their dead brothers and sisters I suppose.

More like the bodies of their dead sisters (= life givers) I'd assume. Hence, the first volunteer was Odona.

You'd think Kirk would have done the same and given them a big lecture to boot (like how they could find another planet or ask the Federation for contraception help)

As a matter of fact, Kirk explicitly asked why the people of Gideon didn't use contraception, but it was against their beliefs because "life was sacred to them". Strange though, that they didn't mind the introduction of a deadly disease.

At least the people of Eminiar VII ("A Taste of Armageddon") handled their overpopulation problem in a less hippocritical manner.

Bob

 

[Commishsleer]

3) To assume that a woman, or a man, who willingly has sex is "easy," does a disservice to such people, and paints them in a wholly undeserved negative light. The proposition that women who want, and get, sex are somehow easy shows an attitude rooted in ignorance, and traditionalism against women. It is an unfair judgment against them.

And even if we went there, Kirk is the one who has supposedly been with a lot of women, not the women he's been with. How on Earth did the qualification "easy" land on the women, and not on Kirk?

It's James Fucking T. Kirk. The one and only. Beat the Kobayashi Maru, saved the universe seven times, tricks the Romulans for breakfast and made Data laugh twice. That new Enterprise married him on their first date, and then remarried him on the night after their divorce. Agent Daniels violated the Temporal Prime Directive to get him in bed. I don't like men, and even I might. Being with him hardly makes the one sleeping with him easy. Kirk on the other hand...

What do I get from this? A woman is easy if she sleeps with the man at the top of the fleet (yeah, even the admirals), but a man is not even if he slept with every time agent disguised as a janitor to get him. I know that the world revolves around sexist double standards, but one could have picked a lower-profile figure to make it less obvious.

Come on people, for a person to be easy, they need to sleep with a person who has nothing going on about them, say... Minuet.

(Forgive me, Min, The Doctor hadn't yet asserted your personhood at the time I was writing this.)

Mmmmm I'd be horrified if my daughter or son slept with with actors or great captains or football teams just to brag to their friends about it. Even if it were the great James T Kirk.

Better not tell my children about my prejudice or they'll do it just to spite me.

I really don't like to judge people though in RL. I mean people can play around with anyone they like as it doesn't hurt me.
I just don't need to hear about it.

Still none of Kirk's affections seemed like that.

Drusilla was ordered to sleep with Kirk (maybe) by her 'master'. There's no way Kirk should have slept with a slave IMO. No matter how willing.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I would totally do him.

 

[Commishsleer]

I would totally do him.

nuKirk or Prime Kirk?

 

[YARN]

He's really just a 60's leading man.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I would totally do him.

nuKirk or Prime Kirk?

Prime Kirk.

 

[Commishsleer]

I would totally do him.

nuKirk or Prime Kirk?

Prime Kirk.

And I suppose you'd brag about it on the TREKBBS afterwards.

Reluctantly I suppose I'd be impressed.
As long as you left my Spock alone.

 

[Trekker4747]

What's your opinion on this:

We all know that Captain Kirk's had a lot of women. A lot of women. One we know he got pregnant, out of wedlock ... and where there's one, there may be more. But it always seemed to me that it wasn't so much to do with Kirk's having a good pick-up line and smooth moves, as much as it was to do with the fact that all of these women he's had were ... easy. Women who would give themselves to any man who didn't fall below their standards - willingly! They thought he looked cute in his pajamas and that's all it took.

So, let me see if I understand this correctly.

A woman is easy because she's into quick, random, encounters with men she hardly knows/just met.

But a man ISN'T easy because he's into quick, random, encounters with women he hardly knows/just met.

Did I get this right?

Why are the women easy and Kirk isn't?

 

[Taylirious]

How is a woman having relations with a man they desire make them easy?