Kobe Bryant Has Died

[Agony_Boothb]

I am finding a lot of "I don't mourn rapists" type of posts, mostly on comedy sites. Those comments bother me a lot, because it isn't the time to make them, but they really can't be dismissed out of hand. Is it possible to discuss this civilly here? What effect should Kobe's rape allegations and adultery have on his legacy?

One of the worst aspects of the Internet is the cancel culture mob mentality and its tendency to encourage people to hurl accusations without evidence. Condemning a dead man for a criminal act that he was acquitted of is some cowardly shit and horribly insensitive to his grieving family. All I see when I see photos of Bryant with his kids is a man who clearly loves his daughters.

I have to admit I know very little of Basketball but R.I.P Kobe and my condolences and thoughts are with his fans on this board.

 

[crookeddy]

I just fear setting a precedent where sexual misconduct is once again normalized. Kobe didn't do enough to be found guilty of rape, but people have been 'canceled' for a lot less then just the stuff he admitted to in the post #meToo world. I really don't know what is appropriate. I feel like I lost a member of my own family, but I also feel guilty for feeling this way.

 

[Kilana2]

People who accuse him after he died have their own skeletons in their closet. Disrespectful people should be ignored.

 

[Relayer1]

Not really familiar with him. TV reporting is saying he was something of a hero in the U.S. - is this not the case ?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I just fear setting a precedent where sexual misconduct is once again normalized. Kobe didn't do enough to be found guilty of rape, but people have been 'canceled' for a lot less then just the stuff he admitted to in the post #meToo world. I really don't know what is appropriate. I feel like I lost a member of my own family, but I also feel guilty for feeling this way.

I think Bryant clearly had some issues which he admitted to but there is no point in condemning a dead man who was acquitted by a court of law and by all intents and purposes was innocent

People are complicated our heroes probably most of all. I guess the closest i could identify to how you might be feeling is how i felt about my father when he died. He had some mental health issues and was often very abusive to my mother, my brother and myself. However there were times when he could be a loving and considerate man who at times made me feel like the luckiest boy on earth. When he died I felt very angry at him, for a long time, until I realised it was pointless being angry at a dead man and decided to remember him for those happy times and those better qualities of his nature that he passed on to me.

I think you should remember Bryant for his accomplishments, and how he made you feel when you were watching him play. Celebrate what he meant to you. That doesn't mean you also can't acknowledge his failings.

 

[DigificWriter]

All of the victims have now been publicly identified by their own family members and/or or people who knew them:
Pilot Ara Zobayan
Harbor Day School assistant basketball coach Christina Mauser
Sarah Chester and her daughter Payton Chester
Orange Coast College baseball coach John Altobelli, his wife Keri Altobelli, and their daughter Alyssa Altobelli
Kobe Bryant and his daughter Gianna Bryant

 

[valkyrie013]

Rip to kobe and especially the other families apparently 3 children were there to. Which is even worse.
Apparently heavy fog, and lapd had there choppers grounded at the time because of the fog. So im hoping it wasn't stupidity of flying in thick fog and running into a hill.

 

[1001001]

I was always more Team Shaq than Team Kobe, and the incident in Colorado certainly had something to do with that.

I didn't know him obviously. I don't know what happened, I don't know what was in his heart and mind that day (or any day after).

What I do know is that, on the court, he was unstoppable. An absolute spectacle to behold.

And in the end, he and his daughter are gone far too young.

I'm happy to leave it at that.

 

[Timby]

I think Bryant clearly had some issues which he admitted to but there is no point in condemning a dead man who was acquitted by a court of law and by all intents and purposes was innocent

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

Are those the words of an innocent man?

Anyway, Bryant was an amazing basketball player. He was a trash human being. End of story.

 

[crookeddy]

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

Are those the words of an innocent man?

Anyway, Bryant was an amazing basketball player. He was a trash human being. End of story.

Not end of story. His life didn't end at the incident. He fucked up badly and should have been punished. He wasn't, but he did become a better man, based on the testimony of 100s of people who actually knew him, unlike us. That doesn't attone for what he did, but nothing could.

 

[crookeddy]

Today's news is that the helicopter was cleared to fly.

 

[valkyrie013]

The chopper did have a black box ( faa says helicopters don't have to.. But is encouraged) so let's wait to see what it says. Pilot error, mechanical. Etc.
As for Kobe or any other celebrity .. Depends if you knew them, watched them, role model etc. So your feeling of lose is different. Personally didn't know him or watch him so he had no effect on my life. But as a human mourn any passing before old age. More interested in what happened in the crash. Hopefully put in New rules to save someone else.

 

[tomalak301]

I am finding a lot of "I don't mourn rapists" type of posts, mostly on comedy sites. Those comments bother me a lot, because it isn't the time to make them, but they really can't be dismissed out of hand. Is it possible to discuss this civilly here? What effect should Kobe's rape allegations and adultery have on his legacy?

I would like to look at his overall character and think there is room for forgiveness. In watching the coverage, I learned a lot about what he does outside the basketball court, his learning different cultures, working with kids through his camps and gyms, and just the overall impact on people. I think what happened in Colorado, while awful, did change him for the better. Isn't that part of his legacy as well?

 

[Jim Klag]

I am finding a lot of "I don't mourn rapists" type of posts, mostly on comedy sites. Those comments bother me a lot, because it isn't the time to make them, but they really can't be dismissed out of hand. Is it possible to discuss this civilly here? What effect should Kobe's rape allegations and adultery have on his legacy?

I'm old school when it comes to this sort of thing. Kobe is gone and his surviving family had nothing to do with his indiscretions. They don't need the rehashing and recriminations that are so common today in tabloids and social media. Let them all rest in peace. Let his family remember him and Gianna as they wish to. And let the families of all the others have their privacy as well.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Aircraft + dense fog rarely ends well. Police helicopters were grounded. News now reporting Bryant’s helicopter had “special clearance” to fly through fog. Why risk lives?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/weather-conditions-eyed-in-kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-officials-say

 

[Agony_Boothb]

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

Are those the words of an innocent man?

Anyway, Bryant was an amazing basketball player. He was a trash human being. End of story.

Maybe he wasn't innocent but that statement alone isn't enough to prove guilt. If it was he'd be in jail. All I'm arguing against is trying someone who is no longer here to defend themselves, in the court of public opinion without sufficient evidence and causing further harm to a grieving family.

 

[Sgt_G]

Aircraft + dense fog rarely ends well. Police helicopters were grounded. News now reporting Bryant’s helicopter had “special clearance” to fly through fog. Why risk lives?

He was flying under "Special VFR" rules, which simply means that cloud / visibility were below VFR conditions , that is, ceilings 3,000 feet and vis of 3 miles or greater. Helicopters may fly "Special VFR" down to 1000 feet and 1 mile, assuming the pilot is so rated, which this one was. The LAPD normally only fly in VFR conditions. They do not fly S-VFR except for for life-saving rescue missions, and then only with command approval.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's really hard to decide how to react to these accusations. On one hand, women who come forward with rape accusations are treated so horribly by the press and by the fans, no way you can assume it's not true and participate in the bullying.

On the other hand, there are sociopaths out there, and vindictive people, and while they constitute the extreme minority you also don't want to convict people in the court of public opinion or jump to the conclusion of guilt. There has to be a way to walk the tightrope where you believe the accuser without assuming guilt in the accused, especially when the one accusation isn't followed by lots of other women coming forward.

There's also all kinds of ambiguities where encounters start out as consensual and turn into something where it's not, and signals are misinterpreted or missed, and questions about whether those kinds of cases are as irredeemable as if he drugged her or assaulted her. Especially from people who came from a time before younger people were given training and education on the subject.

But however you feel about the rape accusation, making other people's mourning about your dislike for the individual is classless.

 

[fireproof78]

RIP

All of the victims have now been publicly identified by their own family members and/or or people who knew them:
Pilot Ara Zobayan
Harbor Day School assistant basketball coach Christina Mauser
Sarah Chester and her daughter Payton Chester
Orange Coast College baseball coach John Altobelli, his wife Keri Altobelli, and their daughter Alyssa Altobelli
Kobe Bryant and his daughter Gianna Bryant

All gone too soon.

 

[MarsWeeps]

The LAPD normally only fly in VFR conditions. They do not fly S-VFR except for for life-saving rescue missions, and then only with command approval.

With good reason. A basketball game wasn’t worth it. I know hindsight is 20/20. The reports say the helicopter hit the side of the mountain at 160 knots. If you are flying in fog, why not slow down?