Kobayashi Maru

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Bastards at Wikipedia are already trying to delete the new content I posted in the 'Kobayashi Maru' entry.

That's because it didn't fit with the rest of the page. Among other things, it treated the new novel as though it were what "really" happened, and gave it much greater importance than all other novels, and even than ST2 itself.

GOOD! That's the whole POINT! In a very real sense, this IS what really happened! It's not like we're ever going to see this onscreen, so it's as canon as it's ever going to freaking GET.

It is, at the very least, more important than all the other novels, because all of those were just iterations of the simulation. This wasn't. This was what really happened.

Don't be surprised if somebody undoes those edits.

 

[JoeZhang]

Bastards at Wikipedia are already trying to delete the new content I posted in the 'Kobayashi Maru' entry.

That's because it didn't fit with the rest of the page. Among other things, it treated the new novel as though it were what "really" happened, and gave it much greater importance than all other novels, and even than ST2 itself.

GOOD! That's the whole POINT! In a very real sense, this IS what really happened! It's not like we're ever going to see this onscreen, so it's as canon as it's ever going to freaking GET.

It is, at the very least, more important than all the other novels, because all of those were just iterations of the simulation. This wasn't. This was what really happened.

Don't be surprised if somebody undoes those edits.

Well they'd be wrong to do so - it's simply NOT more important from a wikipedia point of view, where articles are written from a real world viewpoint not a in-universe "this actually happened" perspective.

 

[Christopher]

GOOD! That's the whole POINT! In a very real sense, this IS what really happened! It's not like we're ever going to see this onscreen, so it's as canon as it's ever going to freaking GET.

It is, at the very least, more important than all the other novels, because all of those were just iterations of the simulation. This wasn't. This was what really happened.

I think you misunderstand what Wikipedia is for. If you want to write a detailed entry on the contents of a Trek novel from an "in-universe" viewpoint, you really should be posting it at Memory Beta. That's where it belongs. The kind of article you seem to want to write would never be able to stand under Wikipedia's guidelines, but it's fine for MB. So you'll save yourself and others a lot of grief if you post it there instead.

 

[JoeZhang]

hum.. Wikipedia does lack articles about the most recent books (which would be fine written from a real world perceptive).

 

[ialfan]

The most relevant episodes would be "Babel One," "United," and "The Aenar," I think. Other than that, I think the only Romulan-related ENT episodes were "Minefield" and "Kir'Shara."

Much appreciated.

If you're going to watch Kir'Shara it would probably be a good idea to watch the first two eps. in that trilogy "The Forge" and "Awakening" before it.

If you're also going to read The Good That Men Do, you'd also be smart to watch Demons, Terra Prime and The Good That Men Do, as they directly set up that novel.

I'm on top of this already. Just wanted to check on any other important ones for KM.

You might also want to have watched Broken Bow, Judgment, Affliction and Divergence as Kobayashi Maru continues the Klingon story from Enterprise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I suppose Memory Beta would be a better idea. I sometimes forget that site is even there, which is part of the problem (also I don't have an account with them).

Wikipedia, though? I might as well give up on them. I've had enough of their heavy-handed tactics.

 

[Christopher]

They're only "heavy-handed" if you don't do things the way they're supposed to be done. Wikipedia doesn't exist for your personal convenience; it's meant to be an objective reference source for the entire world. It can only work if its contributors follow a consistent set of standards, and if any entries that defy those standards get brought into line. It's no more "heavy-handed" than a newspaper editor making sure the reporters get their facts straight and use correct grammar. (Although the former doesn't seem to be a priority for a lot of news outlets anymore...)

 

[Boadrummer]

From TrekMovie...

Clark adds that playing out these original events in the Enterprise novels has offered additional chances to tighten the show’s place in the overall continuity. “There’s some backwards things that we’re laying into "Kobayashi Maru" that explain why Archer’s ship looks the way it does… and also why the Enterprise of Kirk’s era looks the way it does. It’s actually laid out there in one of the movies, all without techno babble.

Anyone notice anything that had anything to do with this in KM?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

From TrekMovie...

Clark adds that playing out these original events in the Enterprise novels has offered additional chances to tighten the show’s place in the overall continuity. “There’s some backwards things that we’re laying into "Kobayashi Maru" that explain why Archer’s ship looks the way it does… and also why the Enterprise of Kirk’s era looks the way it does. It’s actually laid out there in one of the movies, all without techno babble.

Anyone notice anything that had anything to do with this in KM?

No.

The closest movie reference I can think of is:

Spoiler: KM

The Romulans' constant use, in KM, of remote 'telepresence' systems that allow them to take control of any ship they want to. We see them do this with Klingon and Vulcan vessels, and they even try it with the NX-01 - that's why Archer has to abandon the Kobayashi Maru, so the telepresence won't take over his ship as well. This is probably the source of the 'prefix codes' used in ST II. But that's the only such reference I can think of, that KM could possibly have.

 

[Zane Gray]

I think you've got it. I'd bet that's exactly what she was talking about.

Hey, how do you do that spoiler code button? I had a question I wanted to ask about one of the book's sub plots.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think you've got it. I'd bet that's exactly what she was talking about.

But she seemed to be implying something about the *look* of the ship designs in each era. There was nothing in the book about that. Maybe it just got lost in the shuffle, so to speak.

Hey, how do you do that spoiler code button? I had a question I wanted to ask about one of the book's sub plots.

Do this: Before the glob of text you want to spoilerize, put "spoiler=" and then the name of what you're spoilering. Then after the glob of text, put "/spoiler".

(But in the place of the quotation marks that I just wrote, put brackets. [ ], instead of " ")

 

[Zane Gray]

Okay... here's my question...

Spoiler: KM & the Vulcans

The Vulcans were obviously trying to cover their tracks a couple times in this book, and they seem to have MANY secrets. There's also a specific line late in the book - something about how the Vulcans were more active in holding back human expansion into deep space than anyone on Earth realized. So is the implication that this remote control technology (being used as a weapon by the Romulans) was actually developed first by the Vulcans, and the Romulans have stolen it?

That's what I took all that to mean at least.

 

[Reanok]

Zane I think your question brings out alot of interesting points while reading this book I wondered about them too.

Spoiler: Kobayashi Maru

What are the deep and dark secrets are the Vulcans are so desperately trying to keep like you said what was the V'Shar doing so deep inside Vulcan space and T'Pol's frustation about kept out of the loop and restricted from most access on board the Vulcan ship.the technology the Romulans are using to take control of the Klingon ships.Lots of intrigue surrounding how they got hold of this technology.

 

[JD]

From TrekMovie...

Clark adds that playing out these original events in the Enterprise novels has offered additional chances to tighten the show’s place in the overall continuity. “There’s some backwards things that we’re laying into "Kobayashi Maru" that explain why Archer’s ship looks the way it does… and also why the Enterprise of Kirk’s era looks the way it does. It’s actually laid out there in one of the movies, all without techno babble.

Anyone notice anything that had anything to do with this in KM?

No.

The closest movie reference I can think of is:

Spoiler: KM

The Romulans' constant use, in KM, of remote 'telepresence' systems that allow them to take control of any ship they want to. We see them do this with Klingon and Vulcan vessels, and they even try it with the NX-01 - that's why Archer has to abandon the Kobayashi Maru, so the telepresence won't take over his ship as well. This is probably the source of the 'prefix codes' used in ST II. But that's the only such reference I can think of, that KM could possibly have.

Spoiler: Destiny

So this comes from KM then. I was wondering because, they just released a new Gods of Night excerpt on Trekmovie that shows the Romulans using this on Columbia.

 

[Captain59]

Nice to know that the third NX is the Challenger after all. I know at least one audio series has the NX-03 named Challenger. Would be interesting to see if she does pop up in the next book.

I like that too...apparently the authors have been paying attention to chats and messages where a majority of us would like to see the NX naming conventions honor the space shuttle program. Unless someone really messes up, we'll now expect NX-04 Discovery, NX-05 Atlantis, and NX-06 Endeavour.

While the shuttle Enterprise was OV-101 and Columbia was OV-102, Challenger was actually OV-099 and Discovery continued with OV-103. However, with a two-digit NX numbering system, going that route would be impossible, so I forgive the authors for not being able to match up the numbers to the shuttles.

But really..that's way cool of Michael and Andy for doing this, and as a shuttle buff, I really appreciate it. Thank guys.

 

[William Leisner]

I like that too...apparently the authors have ben paying attention to chats and messages where a majority of us would like to see the NX naming conventions honor the space shuttle program.

Yes, clearly they could not have come up with that idea independently...

 

[Marco Palmieri]

...apparently the authors have ben paying attention to chats and messages where a majority of us would like to see the NX naming conventions honor the space shuttle program. Unless someone really messes up, we'll now expect NX-04 Discovery, NX-05 Atlantis, and NX-06 Endeavour.

As a general rule, authors and editors don't take their cues from chats and message boards.

 

[JoeZhang]

...apparently the authors have ben paying attention to chats and messages where a majority of us would like to see the NX naming conventions honor the space shuttle program. Unless someone really messes up, we'll now expect NX-04 Discovery, NX-05 Atlantis, and NX-06 Endeavour.

As a general rule, authors and editors don't take their cues from chats and message boards.

but..but... USS Good ship lollypop sounds really neat!

 

[Christopher]

I like that too...apparently the authors have ben paying attention to chats and messages where a majority of us would like to see the NX naming conventions honor the space shuttle program.

Given that the makers of the show itself chose to name NX-02 Columbia, isn't it fairly self-evident that they intended that from the beginning, and the fans simply caught onto that intention?

 

[Captain59]

Geezzz...sorry I said anything!

BTW, the writers made the second NX ship Columbia to honor the shuttle crew that died, not because it was the second shuttle to be built. If Atlantis burned up, the NX-02 would have been Atlantis...so no...it was not the original plan. Michael and Andy have a history of paying attention to fans, so I have an idea what I'm talking about.

Back to the book...