Kobayashi Maru Test: Why did SA deal with Kirk differently?

[Yeoman Randi]

Ok, i did a search of the threads and couldnt find the answer to this--and it has been bugging me for some time now.

Originally, Kirk gets a commendation for original thinking in taking the Kobayashi Maru test.

In NuTrek it he is shown about to face expulsion.

Now, i realize this is an alternate timeline/universe/whatever, but what would have made Starfleet Academy see his handling of the test any different than in the original timeline?

Thanks for your patience in 'splainin' it to me.

 

[Chrisisall]

Now, i realize this is an alternate timeline/universe/whatever, but what would have made Starfleet Academy see his handling of the test any different than in the original timeline?

Just my opinion- In the first timeline Kirk wasn't so much getting into fights & stuff, or causing commotion- in fact, he absolutely grim. His reprogramming was just to see if he could do it. In the new timeline, he does it to flip the bird at the test itself. His intent was taken into account in both instances. Plus, the New Starfleet has a little less good humour due to the circumstances.
There, my two credits.

 

[davejames]

Yeah Kirk definitely has more of a chip on his shoulder in the new timeline (thanks to the tragic circumstances of his birth), and he was probably a little cockier in the simulator than the original Kirk was.

 

[urbandk]

He's like Maverick flying upside down at 1.5 m range from that Mig. You know his family name ain't the best in the navy. He should be doing it better and cleaner than the other cadets, but he just can't shake the memory of his dad getting shot down over 'Nam.

 

[Timo]

To be sure, we don't know if Kirk was doing supremely well at the Academy, or just managin'. Perhaps ShatKirk was a star student, but PineKirk was a quitter?

Of course, when ShatKirk tells the story, the only people out there to corroborate it are his old pal McCoy and his newer friend Spock - after no doubt dozens of retellings of the events, and with a mutual understanding that the truth-and-nothing-but may not be interesting enough for a good story...

Perhaps it really did happen more or less like it happened to PineKirk, with similar results?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[David cgc]

Original Kirk probably did have a disciplinary hearing for cheating on the test, but either got it waived or got some sort of slap-on-the-wrist punishment, in addition to his commendation. For instance, in Kevin Lauderdale's short story about how Kirk beat the test, he ends up with 99 demerits for his trouble (with 100 being an automatic expulsion). But since Kirk was a straight arrow, he hadn't gotten any before, and it was fairly obvious he wouldn't earn any in the closing months of his academy career, either. It's possible that, had Vulcan not started sucking itself, the same thing would've happened at nuKirk's hearing.

 

[Cyke101]

Frankly, all we had was the questioning. Vulcan was attacked before the matter could truly play out, so we never really got to see a true Kirk Vs. Spock faceoff in this sense, nor did we see which way SA would have really decided once it had time to deliberate.

It's possible that, had Vulcan not started sucking itself, the same thing would've happened at nuKirk's hearing.]/quote]

Or David cgc could beat me to it

 

[Timo]

...Of course, it'd always be possible that the instructors would first let Spock grill the misbehaving student for a few minutes - and then step in, chuckling, and tell the cadet they were proud of his initiative and slap his back while attaching a commendation pin. The protesting Spock would be removed from the scene and be educated in the facts of (SF Academy) life.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[diftorhehsmusma]

i have heard, from people who know more about such things than i, that kirk's main advantage in the situation was his ability to talk himself in/out of anything. he gave a moving speech and convinced the council that he had done something great instead of criminal. he was in the midst of thinking up that speech when spock brought up his Achilles heel: his dead father, which of course in the original timeline wasn't an issue. thusly in this timeline he might not have been able to pull it off as well but, as has been stated, it became a moot point with the attack on vulcan.
also, having taken in all 3 seasons of TOS, i can easily imagine shatkirk being just as kocky in the simulation. acutally i thought this was one of the best moments for pinekirk, where we can see the character most clearly.

 

[Aragorn]

I'd say in this new timeline, Starfleet's focus and outlook have completely changed because of the Kelvin incident.

 

[davejames]

Original Kirk probably did have a disciplinary hearing for cheating on the test, but either got it waived or got some sort of slap-on-the-wrist punishment, in addition to his commendation. For instance, in Kevin Lauderdale's short story about how Kirk beat the test, he ends up with 99 demerits for his trouble (with 100 being an automatic expulsion). But since Kirk was a straight arrow, he hadn't gotten any before, and it was fairly obvious he wouldn't earn any in the closing months of his academy career, either. It's possible that, had Vulcan not started sucking itself, the same thing would've happened at nuKirk's hearing.

Which is another reason I think Pine's portrayal of Kirk in the movie works so well.

If Kirk was really as much of a "straight arrow" as some fans think he should be, then his cheating on the Kobiyashi Maru doesn't make any sense at all. I realize that was written into his backstory long after TOS, but it IS established canon. And now thankfully it all kinda fits together.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Thanks guys for posting your ideas. All are very interesting and i really appreciate your input on it.

This has really been bugging me and i could come up with absolutely NO ideas as to why it, at least, seemed, to go down differently. You've all given me something to think about.

 

[Rackon]

I think y'all have the right of it. We don't actually know what the ultimate verdict would've been.

Interestingly, in the novelization Kirk assumes that the gathering is to announce senior honors, and he thinks he's gonna be named valedictorian. He was surprised to be brought up on charges.

So since he's whizzed through 4 years of intensive studies in only 3, chances are he's at least partly as brilliant as he thinks he is - one can assume that he's in good academic standing pre-KM, and it's unlikely he's faced academic censure before. From what we actually see in XI, Spock might have grilled him and TPTB could well have let him off with a slap on the wrist, or at least something short of expulsion. Or maybe this Kirk would have completely blown it. We'll never know.

I'm also curious, was Spock the KM programmer in TOS? That seems to be a new wrinkle (although an amusing and "logical" one). NuSpock may have pushed the hearing in a slightly different direction in NuTrek than in TOS.

In any case, TOS Kirk and NuKirk both push the limits and neither likes a no-win scenario, both will use unconventional means to achieve their goals. Whatever he was in academy days, TOS Kirk was plenty brash and unconventional as captain, and given his vastly different family circumstances, NuKirk's behavior is in character.

 

[SalvorHardin]

And remember, in the hangar right after Kirk learns he is temporarily suspended and not assigned to a ship, McCoy assures him that the board "will rule in his favor. Most likely."

Granted, maybe he is just trying to console & cheer up his friend.
Or maybe he knows something about how the Academy people think and decide.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^ Sal, i didnt even remember that line. I like the sound of that!

 

[Shazam!]

The obvious answer is that it's a different universe.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^ Yup, this we know. I mentioned that in my OP, but what i want to know is WHY is the outcome different this time? To just say "different universe" does not fulfill the inner geek.

i need to know WHY.

But yeah, different universe.

 

[Chrisisall]

Thanks guys for posting your ideas. All are very interesting and i really appreciate your input on it.

Ask a good question...

 

[WarMaster1701]

That brings up another question. Sulu,Uhura.Chekov were all officers. Its possible Kirk has the rank of LT.

His suspension is what i think prevented him from being assigned to a ship.

 

[SalvorHardin]

That brings up another question. Sulu,Uhura.Chekov were all officers. Its possible Kirk has the rank of LT.

His suspension is what i think prevented him from being assigned to a ship.

He wasn't assigned to a ship because he was temporarily suspended until the board reached a decision about his case.
It is said in the movie to Kirk by the officer Paul Mcgillion plays.