Knock Knock (Grade & Discussion Thread)
- Thread starter TommyR01D
- Start date
Not sure if this has been discussed already but the episode really hand waved bringing the dead kids back. The kids were apparently absorbed into the wood, clearly dead, and yet the Doctor just tells the daughter to bring them back and they all come back as if nothing happened. But I guess the writers wanted a happy ending.
I do find the mystery of the Vault interesting. The Doctor knows who is inside and seems to have a very familiar relationship with the person. That and the Gallifreyan writing makes me think it is the Master. My theory is that the Time Lords locked up the Simms Master in the Vault after "End of Time" since he had completely lost his mind. And, after "Hell Bent", the Time Lords entrusted the Doctor which watching over the Vault because of his past relationship with the Master. I found the Doctor's line about how they are both prisoners intriguing. The Doctor does not appear to be a prisoner since he seems to be able to roam freely. But perhaps, he was referring to being a prisoner to his promise to guard the Vault. Nardole seemed quite upset that the Doctor was going on off world adventures. Perhaps there is some timey whimey reason why the Doctor has to be with the Vault at a certain time. So the Doctor is a prisoner because he is not truly free to go and do what he wants since he has to be at the Vault at a certain time. I bet that Missy is going to free the Simms Master so that he can become her in the future. If I am correct, it would explain why it is so imperative that the Doctor guard the Vault.
I do find the mystery of the Vault interesting. The Doctor knows who is inside and seems to have a very familiar relationship with the person. That and the Gallifreyan writing makes me think it is the Master. My theory is that the Time Lords locked up the Simms Master in the Vault after "End of Time" since he had completely lost his mind. And, after "Hell Bent", the Time Lords entrusted the Doctor which watching over the Vault because of his past relationship with the Master. I found the Doctor's line about how they are both prisoners intriguing. The Doctor does not appear to be a prisoner since he seems to be able to roam freely. But perhaps, he was referring to being a prisoner to his promise to guard the Vault. Nardole seemed quite upset that the Doctor was going on off world adventures. Perhaps there is some timey whimey reason why the Doctor has to be with the Vault at a certain time. So the Doctor is a prisoner because he is not truly free to go and do what he wants since he has to be at the Vault at a certain time. I bet that Missy is going to free the Simms Master so that he can become her in the future. If I am correct, it would explain why it is so imperative that the Doctor guard the Vault.
In a further twist, maybe Missy is one of the Burke's faculty and the Master (by now reduced to an animated corpse again) makes her the next Tremas.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woooooo, four hundred posts!
My guesses are in no particular order: 1st Doctor / Susan / 13th Doctor.
Hard to imagine why a non-villain would be in the vault. Also, wasn't there happy music coming from the vault upon learning the demise of the kids?
Sometimes Moffat thinks he's really clever but it ends up being the most obvious. Or, maybe there is a twist here. However, I'd tend to think that the twist is not that it's one of the protagonists.
I suppose it's not impossible if the vault is more like a time release safe. It's purpose could be to let the occupant(s) out at the correct time. And, if they're protagonists, it could be so that they save the day. Maybe the time paradox of the two Masters meeting opens the safe to allow the person/people inside to help. That doesn't seem to make the most sense though. Still seems more likely to be an antagonist.
We'll find out in a couple of episodes!
Sometimes Moffat thinks he's really clever but it ends up being the most obvious. Or, maybe there is a twist here. However, I'd tend to think that the twist is not that it's one of the protagonists.
I suppose it's not impossible if the vault is more like a time release safe. It's purpose could be to let the occupant(s) out at the correct time. And, if they're protagonists, it could be so that they save the day. Maybe the time paradox of the two Masters meeting opens the safe to allow the person/people inside to help. That doesn't seem to make the most sense though. Still seems more likely to be an antagonist.
We'll find out in a couple of episodes!
Last edited:
I suspect you're right. One of the narrative problems with being so modern day earth centric is that consequences of the stories become harder to hand wave away. A bunch of dead (initially missing) university students? That's national front page news, major investigations, no-body murder enquiries, coroner's inquests, Bill being placed under suspicion and a national spotlight, blah blah blah, not to mention a very dark thing to just have happen in an episode. Narratively, it is much easier to seem realistic if lots of people die in some alien civilisation or distant historical period, and our heroes jump in the TARDIS, off to another adventure, leaving the carnage for someone else to clean up.
While I realise that they are going off world for adventures or short trips, the tie to modern day Earth is wearing thin. I'd like a companion like Rose, Martha, Donna or early Amy again, who was actually flying with the TARDIS all the time, and a Doctor who was free to go and search for adventure. Otherwise, you're wasting the show's premise a little, and it kind of ruins the magic for me. Back from the end of time itself I leave this amazing world behind during office hours and do my day job?
I agree about the problems of a part-time companion. I don't like it myself. I suspect they have done some focus groups and found that the tie to Earth is popular among the more casual fans.
It's the type of thing I can see coming up in a focus group, "oh yeah, I like those parts that kind of relate to my life. It makes me laugh when the Doctor has to deal with the real world." That sort of thing.
It's the type of thing I can see coming up in a focus group, "oh yeah, I like those parts that kind of relate to my life. It makes me laugh when the Doctor has to deal with the real world." That sort of thing.
I seem to remember in the Davies era there were multiple instances of characters recalling a list of alien incursions (the Autons attacking, the Slitheen crashing the clock tower, the ghost shift, the Racnoss star). In the Classic Series it was written off as human self-deception. Moffat ascribes it to Timey-Wimey Stuff. Torchwood, of course had the amnesia pills and the secret cover-ups.
I think the part-time companion stuff is a relic of the Rose Tyler model. Similarly they always have to show us the companions families even if it's little more than a ceremonial cameo.
Considering the Doctor has been on the run from the Time Lords since Hell Bent, I doubt they're entrusting him with anything. I also doubt the Simm Master would have been imprisoned on Gallifrey at the time of Hell Bent. The Time Lords are always in "real time" with each other, which means Missy is the contemporary to the Time Lords as seen in Hell Bent. Also, we know that Missy or the Master escaped from Gallifrey as soon as it was unfrozen after Day of the Doctor.
Just thinking about all this is enough to make me wish they'd just pull the Simm Master from his year ruling the world from the Valiant. Who cares if he looks a decade older?
Knock Knock was OK - rather slow, nice haunted house vibe, great makeup job, some annoying disposable characters... But a good twist, and David Suchet totally stealing it once that's revealed, and pretty much saving it from utter mediocrity. How the bugs worked I just couldn't follow at all, and all I could think of when they covered somebody and then burst away was the scarabs in the 1999 version of The Mummy. (And, really, you want to be copying a more recent effect).
Ah, I knew that cheesy effect felt familiar! Thanks for the reminder.
Considering that the Vault is of Time Lord origin and the Time Lords are masters of Time, it is very possible that it has a weird temporal component to it. Maybe there is a time dilation field inside where time runs slower inside than outside. So who knows what weird timey whimey effects there could be. Also, the Vault is most likely bigger on the inside too!
I think that goes without saying. I would be shocked if the Vault wasn't dimensionally transcendental.Also, the Vault is most likely bigger on the inside too!
But good point about the possibility of time dilation occurring.
Maybe like an amalgamation of regenerations as the Valeyard was... Master + Missy = Mistery
I've come up with a reason in my head for the purpose of a time release vault if it contains a protagonist. You can imagine that if two Masters were to meet it would create a paradox. This paradox could make it difficult for the Time Lords to know when it is occurring. It just obscures the exact point in time. So, they leave a vault on Earth that can sense the paradox occurring up close and release the occupant to help out.Considering that the Vault is of Time Lord origin and the Time Lords are masters of Time, it is very possible that it has a weird temporal component to it. Maybe there is a time dilation field inside where time runs slower inside than outside. So who knows what weird timey whimey effects there could be. Also, the Vault is most likely bigger on the inside too!
I don't think that's the most likely but who knows. It doesn't explain the happy music upon hearing about the kids.
I'm sure it is larger on the inside! Who knows what is in there. The mystery of the vault might not just be an individual but a whole collection of things.
Mr Awe
But only the current batch of kids. I had the impression this had gone on for 70 years. Those other kids are long gone. What about them?
This season has almost felt like a Doctor Who "stereotype." If I was a brand new viewer, I would love the twists and reveals. My first Doctor was 4, so I've been around the block once or twice now. I've enjoyed the stories looking at them from the perspective of a brand new viewer since it's a new season and new companion, its a good time to introduce the Doctor to someone. But now we're 4 episodes in and I'm getting over it.
Pretty Standard for Students. Lets get some more meat.
Hopefully played by Jimi Mistri!
Why would it cause a paradox? The Doctor has met himself quite a bit over the years...
The Master/Mistress is always happy to hear about death.
I'm going to be shocked and amazed if it's not the Master/Mistress. And I think that's the only mystery, is it Simm or Gomez inside?
I'm thinking it's Simm and Gomez goes and breaks him out.
Similar threads
