Knights of the Old Republic Series on the way

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by ichab, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Here's what Wookieepedia says about it:

    Official levels of canon

    The Holocron continuity database was an internal database maintained by Lucas Licensing for the express purpose of trying to maintain continuity within all licensed products, prior to the April 2014 declaration of a single official canon. This Holocron was sorted into five levels of canon that reflected LFL's canon and continuity policies: G, T, C, S, and N. G, T, C, and S together formed an overall continuity that was considered by Lucasfilm to be the "true" Star Wars canon prior to the decanonization of the Expanded Universe.

    G (George Lucas) canon was absolute canon. This category included the six films, some of the deleted scenes from the films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. G canon overruled all other forms of canon when there was a contradiction.

    T canon referred to the canon level comprising only the television show Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

    C (continuity) canon referred to the main body of EU work, and was the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label but not falling into G, S, or N was C canon, and was considered authoritative as long as not contradicted by G canon. Games were a special case as generally only the stories would be C-canon while things like stats and gameplay were N-canon. If the video game had several possible endings or if the player could choose the gender or the species of the main character, only one of each is considered C-canon. C-canon elements have appeared in the movies, thus making them G-canon. These included Coruscant (both its name and the concept of it being an ecumenopolis), swoop bikes, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters, and Action VI transports.

    S (secondary) canon referred to older, less accurate, or less coherent EU works, which would not ordinarily fit in the main continuity of G and C canon. Unless referenced by a G- or C-level source, the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements were still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. For example, this included The Star Wars Holiday Special, the Marvel comics, the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies, and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

    N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label), game stats, "comic" material such as Angry Birds Star Wars or Jedi Academy and anything else that was directly contradicted by higher canon and could not at all fit into continuity was placed into this category. N-canon was the only level that was not at all considered canon by Lucasfilm.​

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holocron_continuity_database
     
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  2. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, great. Except none of that matters. It was just a guide for the licencing people to sort out contradictions, nothing more.

    Tell you what, go grab a dictionary, look up the word "canon". I think you'll find it's definition doesn't allow gradients of reality. It's either canon, or apocryphal. No middle ground, no Grey Jedi. ;)
    You can quote all the fan edited articles you like, it won't alter the reality that Lucas's canon was the only canon that actually meant anything. That was true both before and after the buyout.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I always appreciate Lucas' comment regarding how he would have taken the story-Luke doesn't get married and the like always made me chuckle. Shows his attitude towards the EU.
     
  4. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    George cashed the checks from all of it.
     
  5. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    For me, Star Wars Canon went movies first, books second, games third. Meaning the novels were Canon until Lucas decided to make a movie that said otherwise. Since he never did a movie that went that far back, I always considered the Old Republic era up to Darth Bane Canon.

    And let's be honest, the movies themselves were only Canon until the next home video release ;)
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    He also got money from Star Tours, merchandising, and all the VHS copies sold before the Special Edition. Is the argument now that if he made money from it its canon?
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, of course not. Only whether it "mattered" or "meant anything."
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It pretty much only "mattered" when George said it did. The rest is a mixture of entertainment that I never expect to see in a canon SW film :)
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, me neither. Nor do I even want it.
     
  10. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He also cashed the ones from the C-3PO cereal, bubblegum cards and the Holiday Special. What's your point?
    Ah OK, so you're just arguing for the sake of it. Got it! ;)
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :rolleyes:

    No, I wasn't.
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That's just another thing that random people on the internet say when they're rewriting history.

    You can say that all you want, but that doesn't make it a 'reality'. What does 'actually meant anything' even mean? It may not have meant anything to you, but were you in charge of the franchise?

    Yeah, they did. It's a matter of historical record. Kevin Anderson even told the writers of the anthologies "You are writing canon."
     
  13. flavaflav

    flavaflav Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Nope. Typical rewriting of history by people completely in denial and ignoring stated facts. Lucas flushed the EU down the toilet with the PT, Clone Wars, his ideas for the ST, and his own words. Thank The Maker... and no, that's not Kevin Anderson who was a hired gun and had no say at all at Lucasfilm or any sway over Lucas himself. Kevin Anderson... that's quite comical.
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always figured they came up with the whole tiers of canon thing as a way to try to get the people who won't read anything that isn't "canon" to read the books and comics.
    The fact that the shows and movies ignored them is all the proof you need that they weren't really canon.
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seems to be kinda the other way around IMO: that a certain type of fan that attributes a value judgement based purely on canonical status used this system--really only intended to be used internally at the company--to validate (in their own minds) their enjoyment of EU material.

    This always struck me as a bizarre attitude and really indicative of an unwillingness or inability to think critically and take each individual story/novel/comic/videogame/cartoon/colouring book/whatever on their own merits. As if it doesn't matter if 'Crystal Star' was a steaming pile of bantha manure, so long as it fits in canon level 3 in accordance with retcon #427. Or that what made the X-Wing novels great wasn't the characters and distinctly military fiction style with a Star Wars twist, but that it lined up with the events of 'The Courtship of Princess Leia'. It's a weird, backwards thinking mentality that I've never been able to get on-board with.

    Personally, I have zero problem with some of my favourite Star Wars material being non-canon and I don't need a poorly written wiki article explaining the five overlapping layers of retcons needed ot artificially jam it into lining up with literally every other Star Wars thing ever, canon or no.

    My Revan is and will always be female, because that's MY Revan. No that's not canon. Never was. Probably never will be, and that's *fine*. I don't need it to be in order to enjoy it. "Canon" isn't a synonym for "worthy" and it's high time some fans wrap their heads around that notion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    A million times this. It astounds me that so much is made of a simple word. If a story is enjoyable then the story is enjoyable. Period. I don't need anyone telling me whether or not it is important enough to be included in its canon status to be part of the larger work. It is simply unnecessary to the larger enjoyment of the story.
     
  17. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, so why do you keep doing it? Star Wars is not Star Trek. The in-denial crowd insists that the Star Trek rule necessarily applies to all franchises... because they say so. But they're not the franchise owners, nor are they employed by the franchise. They are merely random internet people with an axe to grind, who are not in any position to dictate policy.

    Strawman aside, the point was that the franchise writers were being told the same thing that the customers were being told. Everyone was being told the same thing. There's no point in making a public statement that something is being decanonized if it was never canon to begin with. Or do the revisionists intend to throw logic itself under the bus along with everything else?
     
  18. flavaflav

    flavaflav Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    What's revisionist is saying the old EU was decanonized. Lucasfilm never said that. They simply tossed it because it was a mess and Lucas already shit all over it. Please provide a link in which Lucasfilm says the old EU is "no longer canon". Know what? You won't be able to... because it was never canon in the first place.
     
  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pablo Hidalgo of the Story Group felt the same way.

    It's funny though, my first Revan play-through almost matched how he looked in SWOTOR, same with my the Exile in KOTOR2
     
  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The old "Tiered Canon" system could be summed up in one phrase: "Everything is Canon until it isn't".

    What it allowed Lucasfilm to do was give most things in the EU credence while simultaneously being upfront about their permanence in SW lore being fluid.
     
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