All it means is that Star Trek writers don't know shit about biology.
Excessive attention to biology and realism can be, and often is, boring and undramatic.
Klingons & Humans Are Literally the Same Species
- Thread starter dgrrr
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Excessive attention to biology and realism can be, and often is, boring and undramatic.
Disease can be a choice in that regard - only if it's informed consent and what ethically qualifies as "informed" and so on. Trek never really covered this, apart from a throwaway episode of VOY with Harry. At the time it may have seemed significant but still disappointing, IMHO.
DS9 once had a character (Dax?) stating that many species could produce hybrid offspring, "with medical help" (genetic engineering, presumably) or something to that effect. A bit of a throwaway line, it's all that was really needed and it worked.
Also, prehistoric humans did cross-breed with different species, albeit those were sufficiently biologically compatible to not need any medical intervention. It's not like the humans of the era were cognizant of it either, they just did it. So fast forwarding, let's say aliens exist and people do have physical and/or emotional attraction to where they want to do it. Then it's not implausible for medical science to step in, since it's on par with the theories that extraterrestrial life will stop by to say "Hi, do you have any Grey Poupon, a cup of sugar, a spare room, and a copy of the Kama Sutra I can borrow?" for any possible contingencies...
Or they just don't let that get in the way of the stories they want to tell.All it means is that Star Trek writers don't know shit about biology.
Plus...you know we have Neanderthal DNA in us, right? Granted, Neanderthals didn't come from another planet, but still. It's not like alien-hybrids are the only element in Star Trek that's somewhat fantastical.
^^this
A line in Deja Q was altered subtly because the technical word didn't have the right sound to it so they used "perigee" instead. I don't recall the source and it may have been in error too, but it's not atypical for creative mediums to make such shifts. Look at (or, rather, take a listen to) "Ma Baker" by Boney M (1977); the actual historical figure was Ma Barker but "Baker" was more in tune, pardon the pun. Pedantry prevailing, having to be 100% accurate is a daunting task. At what point are creative liberties not to be allowed and so on? I like both song and episode, but some probably won't because of those issues alone. YMMV.
Shush, we don't talk about that.
...which is what I wrote...
Regarding the most familiar cross-species hybrids -- those between horses and asses, if memory serves correctly, there are cases on record of either mules or hinnies (maybe both) being fertile.
As to cis-species hybrids, I simply cite Gregor Mendel's own observations. Color in pea flowers is determined by a single binary gene (compared with, say, carnations, where it is much more complex), with the "red" gene absolutely dominant over the "white" gene. Mendel bred pure lines of white and red, then crossbred those pure lines. In the first generation, all of the offspring had red flowers. In the second generation, 1/4 of the offspring had white flowers, and bred true on flower color. 1/4 of the offspring had red flowers, and bred true on flower color. The remaining half of the second generation had red flowers, but continued the pattern of 1/4 white, 3/4 red in their offspring.
Somebody wiser than me once said that if a brilliant but aging scientist declares that something is possible, he or she is probably right, but if that same brilliant but aging scientist declares that something is impossible, he or she is probably wrong.
As to cis-species hybrids, I simply cite Gregor Mendel's own observations. Color in pea flowers is determined by a single binary gene (compared with, say, carnations, where it is much more complex), with the "red" gene absolutely dominant over the "white" gene. Mendel bred pure lines of white and red, then crossbred those pure lines. In the first generation, all of the offspring had red flowers. In the second generation, 1/4 of the offspring had white flowers, and bred true on flower color. 1/4 of the offspring had red flowers, and bred true on flower color. The remaining half of the second generation had red flowers, but continued the pattern of 1/4 white, 3/4 red in their offspring.
Somebody wiser than me once said that if a brilliant but aging scientist declares that something is possible, he or she is probably right, but if that same brilliant but aging scientist declares that something is impossible, he or she is probably wrong.
...which is what I wrote...
But we do not know how much "assistance" T'Pol and Trip they would have needed if they had tried to have a baby with each other. For all we know it would just have been standard maternal care for the 22nd century.
And again, I cite the Quarter-Betazoid from "The Price" he was one of FIVE children of a human father and a half-Betazoid mother. So it can't have been that difficult for his parents to conceive. That makes me think that at least some species seem to have had a rather easy time producing hybrids.
Considering that both Lwaxana and Deanna had multiple inter-species hybrid children, it doesn't seem to be difficult for Betazoids at least.
Edit: Sorry My mistake
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Who give a flying fornicate? It's a TV show. It's fantasy.
Artificial insemination is when a woman impregnated by means other than sex.
We all know the real reason for it is the audience's interest in a character is highly correlated to their bangability.
Maybe the Chase aliens felt the same way. They wanted their descendent races to live together harmoniously, so they designed them to be able to make love, not war.
Maybe the Chase aliens felt the same way. They wanted their descendent races to live together harmoniously, so they designed them to be able to make love, not war.
You're probably thinking of in vitro fertilization, or IVF. That's where a sperm fertilizes an egg under artificial conditions and the resulting embryo is implanted in a woman's uterus, where it gestates normally.
The sperm and egg would still have to be from the same species, or from species capable of interbreeding in nature. The only difference is that fertilization takes place outside of a female's body.
That is what I meant, language barrier didn't get me this time.
Originally I was thinking that sperm and egg are combined even if they're not completely compatible, there is some help needed. Two different species from different planets having offspring is a wild theory but in the world of scifi it can apparently happen.
But we're all from the same source, big bang, so maybe....? =)
Sperm and ova don't seem to feature in procreation all that much in the 24th century. Seska specifically steals Chakotay's dee-en-ay in order to impregnate herself, say, and she wouldn't be one to go for euphemisms.
I gather it's no big deal to skip several relatively fundamental steps of the usual biological process and simply manufacture the desired end product from fairly basic starting materials. Possibly Seska would replicate ova in which to insert the already suitably combined and manipulated DNA, and then raise those inside her for the warm and fuzzy feeling (and to better fool Culluth)?
Creating desired kinds of individuals may still be a bit of a challenge in Trek. But the act of creating need not be particularly high tech, nor particularly tightly tied to conventional biology.
Timo Saloniemi
I gather it's no big deal to skip several relatively fundamental steps of the usual biological process and simply manufacture the desired end product from fairly basic starting materials. Possibly Seska would replicate ova in which to insert the already suitably combined and manipulated DNA, and then raise those inside her for the warm and fuzzy feeling (and to better fool Culluth)?
Creating desired kinds of individuals may still be a bit of a challenge in Trek. But the act of creating need not be particularly high tech, nor particularly tightly tied to conventional biology.
Timo Saloniemi
But Seska did that because she had to be sneaky. And in the end her child was a surprise Kazon baby, not some sort of designer Chekotay offspring.
Are you sure you're on the right message board?
Which just goes to show that you can hope for success even when having to operate under the radar (which may be how Gul Dukat had offspring, too - his mistresses may have clandestinely taken proceptives in order to secure their future). And that nature will find a way even when other plans are in motion; Seska's effort was simply wasted because there happened to be a competing process going on, quite possibly involving separate, natural ova. And other natural things.
In that particular case, I doubt Culluth would have had access to high-tech proceptives, or that the Maje would have been interested in spicing Seska's tea with those. But something Alpha-technological Seska did in order to make possible the carrying of a human-Cardassian hybrid may have opened the door to all sorts of hybrid, including Kazon-Cardassian.
Timo Saloniemi
You’re right, I should’ve been more specific. In place of "hybrid", I should have said something like, “typically, most cross-species hybrid organisms...”
Without exhaustive qualifiers, how could you possibly know what I was talking about? You probably thought I was talking about my car! How do you manage, poor fellow!
The point everybody's been making is that if we have it as a given that with enough advanced medical intervention (Mark Lenard's segment on the old Inside Star Trek LP gives one version of this; Diane Duane's Spock's World, as I recall, gives another, or maybe Ann Crispin's Sarek, or maybe both) to make an interplanetary cross-species hybrid possible, making such a hybrid fertile is probably not a big deal.
And as to humans having red blood and Vulcans having green blood, we must also recall that Klingons have been canonically established (in TUC) as having magenta blood. Both in the Act I assassination scene, and in the omitted-in-the-theatrical release "This is not Klingon blood" scene at the end.
And as to humans having red blood and Vulcans having green blood, we must also recall that Klingons have been canonically established (in TUC) as having magenta blood. Both in the Act I assassination scene, and in the omitted-in-the-theatrical release "This is not Klingon blood" scene at the end.
The other thing Klingons have been established to have is a craving for self-improvement or sheer self-makeover through technology. Which goes well with the one pertinent fact about Klingons: that they look different in their every appearance! Indeed, TOS already featured three rather distinct sorts of Klingon in about five episodes featuring the species, setting the precedent... TMP and then ENT and DSC just took that further.
Constant self-manipulation might show in things like blood color... Pink this year, greenish the next, and dark red when it needs to be (such as when Klingons bleed in TNG or DS9 or VOY or ENT).
Timo Saloniemi
Constant self-manipulation might show in things like blood color... Pink this year, greenish the next, and dark red when it needs to be (such as when Klingons bleed in TNG or DS9 or VOY or ENT).
Timo Saloniemi
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