Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
I've heard that Kirk's shirt in the show was actually green, but showed up as gold on TV.
Are there any pics that show it in its true form?
Are there any pics that show it in its true form?
Kirk's Tunic Color?
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I believe that the command shirt was really an odd greenish colour that looked gold on screen. Not to be confused with the two green wraparound tunics Kirk wore or the green command dress uniform. This is common in television, when on a guided tour at a British television studio I were informed that the costume department has to use a different colour sometimes if they want it to look like another colour to the viewer.
The standard command duty tunic was more of an olive drab but velour having a bit of an odd sheen under stage lights (which was a big part of the reason why Theiss picked it in the first place), it tended to look more goldish when things were brightly lit.
Since Bill Theiss (who chose the color), and cast members all state the color was some kind of green with a SLIGHT hint of gold, I'll defer to them.
Film stock, lighting conditions, etc. all conspired to make the color look everything but green. Look at the "Omega Glory" Viewmaster reels. That color was the example I used for the shirt my mother made for me back around 1976, its the one my son is wearing in my avatar. I replacing the old Joann Fabrics rank braid with accurate ones, but decided for now to leave one sleeve with each type.
Even in the Next Generation, when they tried to force the color to be yellow mustard, there are times when lighting makes it appear green.
The "on screen" vs. "what was intended" color debate has gotten heated at times over the years. No surprise there, considering us fans.
Not unlike the debates over just what color the Enterprise was, for the same exact reason, the inconsistent color correcting.
So I wonder what color the "gold" outfits in the new movie really are? Hmmm!
Also, regarding the green wraparound tunics, the early one, the one where his rank stripes are on the shoulders, I always liked that look.
BTW, this means Kirk wore four different uniform tunics in the series: The first green-gold tunic with the ribbed collar; the second green-gold tunic with the black collar; the first green wraparound v-neck tunic; and the second green wraparound v-neck tunic.
Red Ranger
Also, regarding the green wraparound tunics, the early one, the one where his rank stripes are on the shoulders, I always liked that look.
BTW, this means Kirk wore four different uniform tunics in the series: The first green-gold tunic with the ribbed collar; the second green-gold tunic with the black collar; the first green wraparound v-neck tunic; and the second green wraparound v-neck tunic.
Red Ranger
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They look more orange in the pics they've released so far, which only conjures up images of Craig Ferguson's "Dear Aquaman" skits.
If you've ever brushed a piece of velour with your hand, the nap of the fabric can change colour whether it's leaning one way or the other. Similarly, coloured gels were used over the studio lights.
I've been told that this shot (below) best captures the natural appearance of the shirts off-camera, but still some people's brains interpret the shirt colour as green and others as gold:
^ Yes, to me, that shirt is still gold. Granted, with a greenish sort of tinge, but not "green", not even as green as the wraparound shirts.
This is an argument that will rage forever, but to me the on-screen colour is gold - its irrelevant what colour the uniform shirts were in the studio, just as it's irrelevant the communicators were 'really' vacu-formed plastic in the studio.
Furthermore, dialogue in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations specifically gives the colour as 'gold', and so provides a canonical answer.
This is an argument that will rage forever, but to me the on-screen colour is gold - its irrelevant what colour the uniform shirts were in the studio, just as it's irrelevant the communicators were 'really' vacu-formed plastic in the studio.
Furthermore, dialogue in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations specifically gives the colour as 'gold', and so provides a canonical answer.
The uniforms in the upcoming movie are gold, and the word "gold" did come out of Sisko's mouth in TandT, but that was done so all those who don't know the color is really GREEN don't get confused.
Here's an interview with Theiss on the subject:
http://startrekpropauthority.blogspot.com/2008/05/bill-theiss-lost-interview-rare.html
The fan webseries New Voyages/Phase II uses the same material as the third season, which James Cawley was able to acquire from the same source as Theiss.
To add to the mystery:
James Cawley worked closely with Theiss on TNG and was given all the costumer's notes on the TOS uniforms including the plates to make the rank braid and insignias. He's gone on record on his forum that the first-season velour uniforms were gold, while the green-gold (avacado-like) uniforms were only in the third season. That color was used, apparently, so that under lighting the uniforms would recreate the gold color of the previous season on film.
EDIT: I was wrong, it wasn't on the PII boards but the Starfleet 1701st uniform board. Here's a link to the post by Cawley:
http://starfleet1701st.yuku.com/sreply/5167/t/TOS-Colours-and-Fabric.html
Although, I seem to recall in interview with Nichelle Nichols where she said that at first they put her in "drab olive dress."
http://startrekpropauthority.blogspot.com/2008/05/bill-theiss-lost-interview-rare.html
The first and second season uniforms were made of velour, a type not made anymore. The third season unis were made of a double-knit polyester. The unused Phase II uniforms were also made of that material.
The fan webseries New Voyages/Phase II uses the same material as the third season, which James Cawley was able to acquire from the same source as Theiss.
To add to the mystery:
James Cawley worked closely with Theiss on TNG and was given all the costumer's notes on the TOS uniforms including the plates to make the rank braid and insignias. He's gone on record on his forum that the first-season velour uniforms were gold, while the green-gold (avacado-like) uniforms were only in the third season. That color was used, apparently, so that under lighting the uniforms would recreate the gold color of the previous season on film.
EDIT: I was wrong, it wasn't on the PII boards but the Starfleet 1701st uniform board. Here's a link to the post by Cawley:
http://starfleet1701st.yuku.com/sreply/5167/t/TOS-Colours-and-Fabric.html
Although, I seem to recall in interview with Nichelle Nichols where she said that at first they put her in "drab olive dress."
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More like "olive drab". Think military colors.
One was a green wraparound "leisure tunic." The other was a mustard color. Not really gold or yellow. But not green either.
Yes, but I was partially quoting how Nichelle Nichols (at least how I remember) stating it in the interview. Her word order meaning that she was modifying olive dress as being drab rather than the specific color of olive drab.
If you've ever brushed a piece of velour with your hand, the nap of the fabric can change colour whether it's leaning one way or the other. Similarly, coloured gels were used over the studio lights.
I've been told that this shot (below) best captures the natural appearance of the shirts off-camera, but still some people's brains interpret the shirt colour as green and others as gold:
Man, if I ever open a jar of mustard and its green like this, I'm throwin' it away.
I think we're looking for something along these lines...
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