No, its not. Unless you really believe every officer in star fleet is dead. Either way, its crap writing that could have been fixed if they just put a little thought into it. Its also an area where a military adviser would have helped clean things up, because the writers (and apparently most posters here) have no idea how rank works.
Kirk's jump in rank makes sense
- Thread starter awesomeocalypse
- Start date
Re: Kirk's jump in rank makes no sense
I hate to sound ungrateful, but I don't CARE if Kirk saved the Earth. I don't care if he saved the entire Federation, or indeed the entire fucking GALAXY. Nothing justifies going straight to Captain like he did. Nothing. It violates every rule of military protocol *and* common sense.
As I said before, though, I suspect the promotion we saw was temporary. Once Pike returns to command, Kirk will probably go back to the rank he was before. Remember, this is 2258...eight years before TOS' time. A lot can happen in that time.
I hate to sound ungrateful, but I don't CARE if Kirk saved the Earth. I don't care if he saved the entire Federation, or indeed the entire fucking GALAXY. Nothing justifies going straight to Captain like he did. Nothing. It violates every rule of military protocol *and* common sense.
As I said before, though, I suspect the promotion we saw was temporary. Once Pike returns to command, Kirk will probably go back to the rank he was before. Remember, this is 2258...eight years before TOS' time. A lot can happen in that time.
I believe that Kirk does deserve the promotion in rank. This promotion will also be permanent as it was granted to him not just by Admiral Pike, but also by the Starfleet Council. Also, I don't see why this is such a big issue for some people. After all, didn't Starfleet lose over seven ships, and doesn't Starfleet need to get their best and brightest out of the Academy and into the rest of the ships of the fleet as soon as possible. To me, we got to remember that we are talking about James T. Kirk. Lets not forget that according to TOS, and the first several movies, James T. Kirk proved himself countless times to be the very best Captain that Starfleet has in order to save the day from disaster.
Re: Kirk's jump in rank makes no sense
I don't care how good an officer Kirk is. I don't care if he's the best in Starfleet history. YOU DON'T GO FROM CADET TO CAPTAIN. That makes absolutely no sense detectable by modern science.
What about all those other officers in Starfleet who didn't get their ranks handed to them as freebies? And what about those cadets who still have to, oh, I dunno, EARN their promotions?
Apart from a few hours' worth of battle, Kirk has no experience. What does he know about running a ship? A crew? Why should anyone on that ship even take his orders, let alone actually look up to and respect him?
And don't tell me that Kirk is the only surviving captain. That makes no sense either. Starfleet has hundreds of ships, not all of them were destroyed.
I don't care how good an officer Kirk is. I don't care if he's the best in Starfleet history. YOU DON'T GO FROM CADET TO CAPTAIN. That makes absolutely no sense detectable by modern science.
What about all those other officers in Starfleet who didn't get their ranks handed to them as freebies? And what about those cadets who still have to, oh, I dunno, EARN their promotions?
Apart from a few hours' worth of battle, Kirk has no experience. What does he know about running a ship? A crew? Why should anyone on that ship even take his orders, let alone actually look up to and respect him?
And don't tell me that Kirk is the only surviving captain. That makes no sense either. Starfleet has hundreds of ships, not all of them were destroyed.
Alright, since this keeps on coming up I'll explain it nice and clear. The reason why rank exists, is so that people can progressively and gradually learn their job. it is not a reward for someone being the most awesome person out there.
You start out small, leading about 40 or so people. You learn the ropes of small unit command. You then do a staff job for a little bit. You then take charge of even larger groups. Then more staff jobs. Now why is this done? Experience. You can be smart, you can have outstanding leadership potential. That means nothing unless you have experience in both command and staff duties. It is for this reason that the movie makes no sense and stretches credibility. Yes he saved the earth. That's what medals are for. You don't see them making Medal of Honor winners generals. The reason why is because even if you are an outstanding individual, that does not mean you are qualified enough to take a command position.
When they made kirk an instant captain, not only did they stretch credibility by doing so, they also damaged his character a bit. He is no longer an individual that you can relate to, he's this super character with miraculous powers that makes him instantly better than anyone else. Its lame and doesnt do the character justice. It also ruins some good story telling oportunities about a young officer learning about how to become a leader and what it means to develop over time.
C'mon this is the same man who jumped from Fugitive to Hero in ST III-IV.
I'm sorry, but this is James T. Kirk we are talking about. It was his decisions that saved earth and defeated Nero in this alternate timeline, just like it was James T. Kirk's decisions that saved earth and the Federation countless times in the Prime Timeline. In my opinion, we got to accept the 40 years of built in mythology and recognise that we are talking about James T. Kirk, not just another genius cadet leader who graduated from Starfleet Academy.
As a 15 year Veteran of the U.S. Army, I fully understand and recognise the importance of the rank structure. Hell, in the real world, I would fully agree with you. But this is Star Trek, and the earth of the future. Therefore, how do we know that rank structures and promotions in Starfleet are nearly the same or similar to modern militaries of today? Answer:: We don't know. Thats the bottom line. Therefore, I can easily believe that James T. Kirk was promoted to Captain by Starfleet Council based upon his merit and achievements, and that he would not have had to quickly rise up over the years through the ranks like he did in TOS.
Which is why its shitty writing. By this logic, he isnt a relatable character. he's t3h aw3s0me. This thinking means that he isn't a character that needs to develop, learn and advance with time. That's bad writing. That said, Iw ould like toa dress this point in particular
Justifying someones promotion because of what they will do in the future is one of the worst ways of telling a story. Rather than say "we're going to promote him to Captain because we know he will be captain one day and hes going to be amazing" is not the way to handle a story. What would have been decent would have been "we'll we know kirk is an outstanding individual in the future. Lets show he becomes such a great leader and how he changes over time to become the hero of the federation". One of those is interesting, the other is lame and makes little sense.
Nice to see another Army guy in here
This is the thing. They can either use the military structure as a way to make whats going on relatable to the audience or they can just abandon it all together. You cant have it both ways where you have a military structure and yet at the same time rank is meaningless and has no function. If thats the case, why have rank at all.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
In Star Trek III, Kirk and friends steal a frickin starship, sabotage another, assault Federation officers, break an embargo under penalty of death, and piss off the Klingon empire.
Then in the next flick, he saves the planet and gets his command back.
So if, in one movie, he can do all that crap and yet get virtually no punishment then, to me, this jump in rank is no more preposterous.
Then in the next flick, he saves the planet and gets his command back.
So if, in one movie, he can do all that crap and yet get virtually no punishment then, to me, this jump in rank is no more preposterous.
I dont think any one said otherwise
Its there an episode in TOS where they talked about a young Lt kirk, or is it ensign kirk, that froze when facing a blood sucking gas cloud?
so in TOS kirk did have to climb the ranks.
As far as the rank structure in the future goes, didnt riker spent most of his the longest time staying first officer?.
And data wasnt promoted to captian, and he had shit loads of accomadations and such.
But then again janeway got promoted to admiral for simplying bring back her ship. (i was a bit peeved when she advanced faster in rank than piccard.)
kirk got demoted to captain for that, thus the same rank as spock in undiscovered country.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
But it's a punishment that doesn't begin to fit his earlier crimes. For all of Kirk's good deeds in saving Earth, his previous betrayal gave the Starfleet the sign that it could not trust him again in the future. That's really what this is about. Trust. And yet they give him back the command of their FLAGSHIP?
i suspect that kirk was just a cadet in name only and probably like saavik had the rank of leiutenant at least.
the koybashi maru is probably like a last stepi thing for officers before going up rank through the command rank.
though i wish they did bring in that thing from the dossier that he was already an instructor at the acedemy.
but the bottom line is..
pike promoted him to first officer.
kirk helped to save earth and the rest of the federation planets with more original thinking.
the koybashi maru is probably like a last stepi thing for officers before going up rank through the command rank.
though i wish they did bring in that thing from the dossier that he was already an instructor at the acedemy.
but the bottom line is..
pike promoted him to first officer.
kirk helped to save earth and the rest of the federation planets with more original thinking.
and that's better than giving a raw cadet the flag ship? A newly build flag ship at that.
Similar threads
