• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Kirk's jump in rank makes sense

I confess that the promotion stirred my mind on my first viewing. I since gave considerable thought to the question, including what so many have stated here.

The most obvious answer to me is that nuKirk simply and plainly deserved the promotion. I have no idea what the board of admirals was, be it an academic or a command body, as their placards all just read "Starfleet Command Admiral". These were the ones seemingly charged with the promotion decision. Possibly their lives, definitely the lives of many they loved, the academy itself and the entire Earth would suffer the dread fate of Vulcan if it weren't for nuKirk and co.

Put yourself in the position of those who made the decision. They might not even be alive to make that decision without nuKirk. Nero did, after all, specifically target the SF Bay. Add to this that most of these admirals probably never themselves saved the Star Fleet, the Federation, the Earth and whatever other planets Nero would have gone on to annihilate, but were still admirals in rank. This would all weigh heavily on my own decisionmaking and my soul.

While I realize we are truly where no man has gone before in the Trekiverse, I can't help but think those who criticize the promotion rely upon their knowledge of the Prime Trekiverse in so doing. It's all we have to go on and is at least instructive.

The end of Star Trek 11 is analogous to the end of Star Trek 4 in a way. In 11, nuKirk is promoted for essentially saving the Earth, a reward of sorts. Although the crew was before the Federation Council on criminal charges at the end of 4, they were rewarded by a summary dismissal of charges. Kirk was "punished" by being made captain again, although that demotion was a total reward to him. In the end of both films, Kirk winds up as captain specifically for saving the Earth.

I look also to The Picard, who received his promotion because of his performance in the absence of his captain (this time due to death), at the age of 28. Think back to TNG Conspiracy and Captain Tryla Scott, the youngest captain ever. She was at least younger than Picard was when he got the seat, which is 27 or younger. Kirk was here, what 25ish? Tryla had to be a total wunderkind like Kirk, as neither of them could have put in the many years of practical experience so many of you demand.

Perhaps it is all about aptitude and merit. Only one man in a million could command a starship, if Commodore Stone is right, even with years of seniority. nuKirk had demonstrated aptitude, scholastically, by testing, and by experience with Nero. Kirk Prime, after all, was "a stack of books with legs" at the academy until he met Carol. nuKirk was the one who cobbled together the fragments of the puzzle and figured out that Vulcan was being attacked. Does this make him any less apt than Tryla Scott or The Picard? Did his status make him any less worthy to nuPike of that initial field promotion than Wesley to ensign (with no academy experience) or Chakotay to first officer (with academy experience)?

The admirals making the decision must also have been keenly aware of a need for new and talented captains. In addition to the loss of classes of cadets, this film saw the loss of seven captains, six by death and one, nuPike, by promotion or disability. So many captain seats needed a few good men, and nuKirk, already experienced on the E, clearly fit the bill in so many ways. These promotions being largely influenced by recommendations, surely those of nuPike and Spock Prime were critical, both having seen fit to attend the award, promotion and change of command ceremony.

As for nuSpock, didn't he screw up that regulation 619 by going bonkers? Spock Prime went perturbed over the loss of 400 Vulcans sectors away in Immunity Syndrome, so I can only imagine both Spocks were greatly emotionally compromised, nuSpock even moreso with the loss of his mother. It is understandable that nuSpock would be passed over for this reason and for initially refusing to directly pursue Nero, instead marooning nuKirk and heading for the Laurentian whatever. Both were errors in judgment and both Spocks seemed to be error prone in this film. It's not as if either had an ego to bruise anyway.

As for the rest of the promotions, it has been pointed out that the nu Spock, McCoy, Sulu and Chekov appeared to be already commissioned. nuPike's engineer died in the first drill scene. After what nuScotty did in the crisis, coupled with his obvious engineering skill, and a supposed request for an assignment to the E, it's not too much of a stretch to see him wind up there. nUhura's multilingual competence exceeded that of the bridge communications officer, she was essential to figuring out Vulcan was being attacked ahead of time, she wants to go nowhere but the E, and nuSpock seemed willing to grant her transfers even before the romance. There's no mystery there for me. She'll likely even surpass Uhura Prime in competence if she avoids having her entire mind erased in nuTrek. Much like in Star Trek 4, the crew was rewarded collectively for saving the Earth collectively, and all inherited a new E.

There really is no absurdity in this extraordinary promotion if you think about it. Extraordinary actions warrant extraordinary consequences. Oh, and I doubt the Kobayashi Maru has much to do with this equation. Without the crisis intervening, why would we believe Kirk's solution to the KM test would result in something different for nuTrek? In Trek Prime, Kirk ultimately received a commendation for ORIGINAL THINKING, something lacking in the analysis of this issue thus far.

From the Delta Quadrant with Love,
Seska
 
Guartho said:
Even in today's services this is not necessarily consistent. Some professionals are sworn-in as officers and then go to OTS.

The key word in your post is the word nurse. You are talking about the Direct Commissioning program. Direct Commissioning is for carrier track officers with highly specialized skills and not for people who will be in command positions. Its for people like doctors, nurses, and lawyers and doesn't apply to someone who is put in command of an air craft carrier (which is pretty equivalent to what Kirk is in command of). Again, it is also for people who have years of experience and training in their field.Just face it, it was sloppy writing. thats all their is to it. It can be retconed or justified however you like, at the end of the day the creators of this film rushed the ending for the sake of having him in the captains chair

Oh sure, I didn't mean to imply that it was the exact situation for Kirk. Just that our military will fast-track people with necessary skills. Kirk has demonstrated exceptional skill in command. He may have been about to become a LT or LT CDR based on this and so the leap to Captain is more plausible given the extremely unique situation we get in Star Trek. Our armed services wouldn't do that, but then we're back to "Starfleet is not a military organization." These two writers probably argued all of these points back and forth amongst themselves for days so I wouldn't call it sloppy writing.
 
Here's another thing to consider:

The bulk of this film takes place in 2258. That's SIX YEARS before TOS. If, as I suspect, Kirk's ending rank of Captain is only temporary - for the time being, until Pike returns to duty - there is plenty of time for Kirk to work his way back up through the ranks normally like everyone else.

If Kirk graduates from the Academy as a Lieutenant (as he did in TOS), there is definitely plenty of time for him to be promoted normally to Captain by the time 2266 - TOS' time - comes around. Hell, even if he graduates as an Ensign like all other cadets do, there's *still* time.

There's also time for Chekov, too. How old was he supposed to be in TOS? He was 17 during this film, so that means he will be 23 when this universe's TOS rolls around. Isn't that how old he was supposed to be in TOS anyway?
 
Well. The Enterprise seemed to be full of new cadets, except Spock, who was logically in command for much of STXI. Remove Pike, emotionally compromise Spock, and it logically fell to Kirk, who was assigned as XO by Pike.
We also have Kirk's "off the charts" aptitute tests, and so on.

In might not make sense from a strictly military perspective, but it does make perfect sense from a Horatio Hornblower point of view. Still a stretch, but it's not the first (or last) time Kirk's rank does some gymnastics.

Excellent!

I'm glad someone said it!

Roddenberry always pitched Trek as Wagon Train to the Stars and Horatio Hornblower in Space. So this is a wicked comparison to make. I think what happened works well enough considering Kirk is just meant to be a sort of modern take on Horatio.
 
Well the promotion makes sense to me. The Kirk we know is a legend so it only makes sense he was a prodigy too. Pike thought enough of him that he went out of his way to recruit him.

Besides all that it was because and a result of his determination alone that earth was saved.

It's not unreasonable when you look at the history of US Armed Forces and it's history of battlefield promotions. Exceptional leadership is rewarded with promotions...that's the way it works.
 
I agree with the idea that Spock Prime had some input in nuKirk's promotion. Also, nuKirk got a brainload of insight from that mindmeld.
 
The novel does a great job of explaining his rise. In the bar scene Pike talks to him about the type of individuals now in Starfleet. He refers to the others cadets in the bar as Ivy League Eggheads and Oxford Omelettes. He tells him there are no longer risk takers in Starfleet like his father. He then tells him about the 4 years at the Academy and 4 years after. It was more about the type of man who now exists in the 23rd century. Maybe that explains why we have so many bad and sorry Captains in the history of Trek. Kirk was more the exception and noth the rule. Risk is our business!
 
After Kirk's accomplishment, no other rank would do. I can't imagine any captain wanting him for an underling.

And he would be miserable. He'd probably have to leave the service. Kirk is a take-charge guy.
 
Ahahahahaha, that was awesome :techman:

Seriously though, I have never seen so many many falling over trying to explain something that does not make any sense.

There was no falling over or attempts to explain anything. Just the bottom-line.

Ok, rationalize it however you like. It still makes zero sense.

It's not rationalization - it's just the bottom-line as to why he was promoted. If you don't like it that's fine. I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong. It can't be. It's your opinion.
 
On the contrary, Horatio Hornblower had to work like a dog for every single promotion he ever recieved, and while he did get help from friendly senior officers, he still had to spend time in grade and pass the promotion exams (save for the case of the fire ship, but special circumstances, and it was just a one-point jump). Kirk is in no way, shape or form anything like Horatio Hornblower on this matter.

That's a slight distortion. Time in grade doesn't have anything to do with Hornblower's promotions; his bumps from lieutenant to commander and from commander to post captain are also due to special circumstances.

And as long as we're talking Napoleonic era, Nelson was post-captain at twenty; though he had been at sea since he was twelve, so Kirk's a bit behind in experience. The again, Nelson hadn't actually achieved anything spectacular by that point; superiors just thought he would.
 
Well. The Enterprise seemed to be full of new cadets, except Spock, who was logically in command for much of STXI. Remove Pike, emotionally compromise Spock, and it logically fell to Kirk, who was assigned as XO by Pike.
We also have Kirk's "off the charts" aptitute tests, and so on.

In might not make sense from a strictly military perspective, but it does make perfect sense from a Horatio Hornblower point of view. Still a stretch, but it's not the first (or last) time Kirk's rank does some gymnastics.

Excellent!

I'm glad someone said it!

Roddenberry always pitched Trek as Wagon Train to the Stars and Horatio Hornblower in Space. So this is a wicked comparison to make. I think what happened works well enough considering Kirk is just meant to be a sort of modern take on Horatio.

I said this earlier, and I'll say it again; it makes no sense whatsoever from a Horatio Hornblower point of view, and those claiming it does merely betray their utter lack of familiarity with Hornblower.

Horatio starts off as an ensign, and a rather poor and unconnected one at th at. He has to work hard for every promotion he's given; yes, he advances faster than usual, but he still has to take all the promotion exams, which are quite difficult, and spend at least some time in the various ranks. He is occasionally given command of small craft or landing parties or prize ships, but at the end of that specific mission he is always returned to his original ship, at his original rank. At no point, and despite being just the kind of dashing, brilliant, strategic-minded officer any navy would love to get its hands on, is Horatio promoted simply on the basis of a single, individual action, no matter how heroic, nor is he ever promoted beyond the usual structures of the system, which is to say no ensign-to-commander or lieutenant-to-captain jumps.

The original Kirk was Horatio Hornblower; he was brilliant, he worked hard, he seems to have cultivated good relations with the higher ups, and he climbed the career ladder faster than anyone but without skipping any steps. Abrams' Kirk is Han Solo; he helped someone else save the world (remember, it's Spock who stops the Narada) and they made him a general.
 
Spock Prime convinced Starfleet Command to make Kirk a captain because he was destined for it anyway, so they accepted.
 
I haven't read the thread...but how pissed would you be if you were plodding along at starfleet...trying to do everything right and work through the ranks...and then this kid...this upstart flies in and makes captain right away...as a fellow cadet or higher ranking officer already employed in service...I'd be pretty pissed.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top