Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next movie

[multitrek]

It's not so much the way he died that bothered me. He fell to his death saving the lives of countless people including the crew of the Enterprise... twice in the same day (from his point of view).

Maybe his death could have been better written... but that's the way it was written.

But what really bothered me when I saw Generation was this...

He was buried like an old dog and is not mentionned by anyone afterwards.

We could have seen Picard annoucing this to Spock. To Scotty if Nimoy didn't want the part. Or at least have Picard say to Riker... Will I just buried Jim Kirk... And have the two of them look at each other in a way that would express how historic an avent this is for them.

So if Kirk is not brought back in the next movie I think it would be a good occasion to address Kirk's death in the next movie. Spock should express grief about this to someone.

Would it not bring closure to Kirk's demise?

How can a character like Kirk, who inspired so many people in real life, be written to die with having his death seem so unimportant? I could never understand this. And my guess would be that this whole bring back Kirk debate has its roots in this lack of closure.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Evidently Shatner didn't consult with the Reeves-Stevens before agreeing to "Generations" so he didn't realize that the writing was not to his taste.

 

[Franklin]

I guess we crave closure in fiction because it so often alludes us in life. I guess that's why we crave better death scenes in fiction, too. No author would've had General George Patton die as he did if his life had been a fictional story.

Kirk's death was an accident. His luck ran out. I guess that's what could bother people. He was acting heroically, but no more than usual. The bridge just collapsed. That's all. (Though it's probably better a better way to go than being shot in the back as was originally filmed.)

I'd see no reason to work the death of Kirk into this film unless it's needed.
Folks have posted quite a few scenarios on this board having the movie open with old Spock at Kirk's funeral or lamenting his death, or whatever, but it's all speculation (and maybe wishing).

 

[seigezunt]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

someone here posted a nice suggestions where the two meet, Kirk is alive, and they brush it off with a joke. I liked that: that whole movie wasn't worth anything but a moment of laughter.

That said, the new movie shouldn't waste a minute of screentime explaining away the mistakes of a past crappy production. Let's get on with the new story.

 

[Woulfe]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

^ I had something like that in mind myself, near the end of the film.

Spock finds Kirk on Varidian 3, Kirk is incoherant and babbleing, Spock mind melds with Kirk to restore his memory.

Kirk : Spock, your name is Spock....

( An in-joke to Star Trek III of course )

~ And The Adventure Continues ~

Screen goes to black, credits roll.

- W -
* See no need to explane Generations at all *

 

[Franklin]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

seigezunt said:
someone here posted a nice suggestions where the two meet, Kirk is alive, and they brush it off with a joke. I liked that: that whole movie wasn't worth anything but a moment of laughter.

That said, the new movie shouldn't waste a minute of screentime explaining away the mistakes of a past crappy production. Let's get on with the new story.

-- Let's say for the sake of argument Abrams COULD have a REALLY GOOD role for old Kirk in the film if it wasn't for he inconvenience that the character died.
-- Let's say that since it's at least a partial reimagining of Trek that they decide that the story is too good to leave old Kirk out because he's dead. So he's retconned back alive. That's it. Never happened. That simple.
-- Think of the hero Abrams would become to the Berman-bashers who see him as the murderer of Kirk.

 

[Woulfe]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Now there is the diffrence between the old gaurd and the new guard as far as Trek goes.

Berman - Loved to tell us what's going to happen in the next film / project..... "Valentine To The Fans"

Abrams - Likes to keep every last detail a secret.... "All The Clues To The Next Film Are In The Posters You've Seen So Far"

- W -
* What does this tell us about the new film ? Nothing really *

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Maybe, as sort of a joke, you could have Spock and Kirk watching "historical footage" of the events of Generations (ala the movie itself) and Kirk saying "That's NOT how it happened!"

Or, perhaps have Spock look to Kirk afterwards, raise an eyebrow, and say, "Aren't you dead?"

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

I strongly believe that we'll be seeing a VERY old Spock, and that he'll be giving an object lesson to the "next generation" of Trek characters... telling one of them about a piece of his history, and particularly about Jim Kirk... essentially using the story of Kirk's life (and quite possibly his death as well...) to make the point he's trying to make.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Franklin said:
-- Think of the hero Abrams would become to the Berman-bashers

No real adult respects or craves the respect of the bashers.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

multitrek said:

He was buried like an old dog and is not mentionned by anyone afterwards.

The movie was over. Big threat averted. You wanted to see the Enterprise drive around and do condolence calls?

We could have seen Picard annoucing this to Spock. To Scotty if Nimoy didn't want the part. Or at least have Picard say to Riker... Will I just buried Jim Kirk... And have the two of them look at each other in a way that would express how historic an avent this is for them.

I think that would have been very anti-climatic for a movie.

 

[ancient]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

I really don't care too much. I would probably find it pretty distracting.

Though they could always do one of those after-the-credit things where they throw the nerds a bone while 95% of the audience never sees it.

Sneaky...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Professor Zoom said:

multitrek said:

He was buried like an old dog and is not mentionned by anyone afterwards.

The movie was over. Big threat averted. You wanted to see the Enterprise drive around and do condolence calls?

We could have seen Picard annoucing this to Spock. To Scotty if Nimoy didn't want the part. Or at least have Picard say to Riker... Will I just buried Jim Kirk... And have the two of them look at each other in a way that would express how historic an avent this is for them.

I think that would have been very anti-climatic for a movie.

Exactly. The whole Kirk thing was enough of a distraction as it was. Bury him and get on with the movie.

 

[PowderedToastMan]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Abrams job is to bring Trek back to the mainstream and make it a successful long term franchise again. That is a huge task with many pitfalls. To task him with cleaning stuff from over a decade ago is silly.

If the film is a success, then it will launch more films and most likely a TV show. Then some day maybe one of them will throw the 'fix generations' crowd a bone and make some off hand comment...doubtful but it could happen. But it will only happen if Abrams new movie works. He has enough on his plate. Listen to what Leonard Nimoy said. Even though Nimoy said he wanted Shatner in the movie, he also said 'let him make his movie'...just like Nimoy was allowed with STIV.

It is ironic that fans have complained about the studio making silly demands on the film makers...and now that a film maker has been given total creative control some fans want to step in and make some silly demans of their own

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

In 2027, on "Star Trek Enterprise: The Next Generation," the crew of the NX-01-A will go into the future and rescue Kirk.

Same as "Enterprise" explained the Klingon ridge thing after twenty five or thirty years.

 

[Dude]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

UWC Defiance said:
Same as "Enterprise" explained the Klingon ridge thing after twenty five or thirty years.

But... but... this was the single most important episode of the show's entire run...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Why mention his death at all? To ignore it would mean the possibility of having his death happen differently this time around.

I was never up in arms about the way he died. But I'm not opposed to that bit of canon being judiciously ignored.

 

[Aragorn]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

I don't understand all the hate over Kirk's death? I guess you probably would've wanted him to go down in a blaze of glory... unless you're the type who thinks all Trek regulars should never ever die. But what could be more heroic than dying to save millions of people you don't know who will never know what you did for them?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

Y'know I want a thrilling new adventure movie with Kirk, Spock and the gang and not a movie that fixes up all the things that a number of fans want fixed. That type of movie isn't going to apeal to the mainstream at all. And that's what we need for a successful film.

 

[Jon1701]

Re: Kirk's death should at least be adressed in the next mov

PowderedToastMan said:

It is ironic that fans have complained about the studio making silly demands on the film makers...and now that a film maker has been given total creative control some fans want to step in and make some silly demans of their own

You see, this is one of the intstances where it helps to be a "non-fan" of the Franchise. Abrams was a Star Wars kid. He is probably not as close as say one of us would be over this thing. I dont think Dead Kirk needs to be in this movie, especially as the script doesnt seem to need it (and that he is dead!). But were I in charge - I would certainly feel the pressure to put him in.

This movie has some very interesting parallels with TWOK at this point. If Nicolas Meyer were coming into the franchise for the first time today, you can bet he wouldnt feel pressured to put Shatner in. He most certainly would have served the story first.

And he didnt have total creative control.