Kirk's Celebrity Status

[Ithekro]

Admiral Kirk would be the commanding officer and thus the one that would attract the attention of the media. What happened to Captain Decker might never have come out in public. He and Illia are MIA.

I would think some of Kirk's missions and encounters during his time as captain of the Enterprise, and perhaps before that, would have been noted in the media. Especially anything that could easily be made public knowledge. The incident on Station K7 could easily be made public. The disaster at Cestus III with the Gorn, or Deneva with the parasites would have gotten into papers after the loss of a major colony. News about the Romulans returning many have gotten into the news, and Kirk's role in keeping them away may have been mentioned. The Babel Conference may have been news worthy. Some incidents with the loss of a major starship may have also made the news. The loss of Defiant, Constellation and Intrepid. The deaths of the crews of Exeter and Excaliber. Probably the incident at Organia that ending the short war with the Klingons was something news worthy.

 

[siskokid888]

In Roddenberry's novelization of TMP, Starfleet has somewhat fallen out of favor on Earth and, knowing this, Kirk uses his popularity and status to basically bully Admiral Nogura into giving him back the Enterprise. So if you go by that, he must have had been determined, at least by Roddenberry, to have a pretty impressive "celebrity status".

 

[urbandefault]

Wasn't it suggested somewhere along the way that the Enterprise was the only Connie to survive her 5 yr mission? That would be newsworthy in itself.

 

[Ithekro]

It was a fandom suggestion I think. Especially if the USS Yorktown was also one of the originals, or if some of the others on the Operation Retrieve list are correct, like the old USS Republic that Kirk served on.

The idea seems to come from all of Starfleet using the Enterprise's ship patch after TMP.

 

[Karzak]

I feel like I read somewhere (and if could well be a fandom-generated thing) that the original Enterprise under Kirk's command was indeed the only Constitution-class ship of the original twelve to return from it's five-year mission successfully and because of this, (as well as the historic groundbreaking success of said mission) Starfleet adopted the Enterprise arrowhead/delta insignia for the entire fleet (as evidenced by TMP onward) to honor the accomplishments of Kirk and crew during those five years.

 

[MarsWeeps]

I feel like I read somewhere (and if could well be a fandom-generated thing) that the original Enterprise under Kirk's command was indeed the only Constitution-class ship of the original twelve to return from it's five-year mission successfully and because of this, (as well as the historic groundbreaking success of said mission) Starfleet adopted the Enterprise arrowhead/delta insignia for the entire fleet (as evidenced by TMP onward) to honor the accomplishments of Kirk and crew during those five years.

Yes, it was a fandom-generated thing. I believe it was from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise"

 

[MacLeod]

i don't have a problem with the dating. I have a problem with the notion that Kirk's missions on the Enterprise would be a part of the public record almost as soon as they happened.

Why?, lets look at a naval commander from history

Admiral Lord Nelson

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/facts/explorers-and-leaders/horatio-nelson

From the article :-

His victories and great courage caught the public imagination, and he was indeed considered a hero, both in his own lifetime and in the Victorian period following his death. Almost 200 years later, he is still a character that arouses great interest.

 

[eyeresist]

It's interesting to think that most of Kirk's movie adventures would have been hushed up.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

It's interesting to think that most of Kirk's movie adventures would have been hushed up.

Would you have expected anything different? Kirk's involvement in the Genesis fiasco (as well as the project itself) would have been classified, as would his trip through time to recover George and Gracie; the public might know that he saved Earth (again), but they wouldn't be privy to the details.

--Sran

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It's interesting to think that most of Kirk's movie adventures would have been hushed up.

I think that would be the case with a lot of the TOS adventures, too. Would Starfleet want it getting out that attempting to pierce the Galactic Barrier could potentially boost someone's mental abilities up to godlike levels? How about the existence of the Mirror Universe or the Guardian of Forever? A near-invasion from the Andromeda Galaxy? Talos IV wasn't even generally known of within Starfleet.

And since we were never given any indication that the Enterprise had any civilian reporters on board, it wouldn't be especially difficult for Starfleet to keep potentially sensitive things like this secret. Heck, Kirk even kept the details of certain missions secret from Starfleet itself (He never told anyone that he discovered Zephram Cochrane was still alive or that Khan Noonian Singh was stranded on Ceti Alpha V).

And it's interesting that MacLeod had to reach all the way back to Lord Nelson to find a military commander whose exploits were well-known to the general public. How much do we know about what folks in modern-day military branches are up to, outside of the broad strokes? We don't typically hear about foiled terrorist threats or every assassination threat against the President, do we?

 

[T'Girl]

And it's interesting that MacLeod had to reach all the way back to Lord Nelson to find a military commander whose exploits were well-known to the general public.

Jimmy Doolittle was well known during the second world war. War heroes were sent on fund raising tours to large public events and repeatedly told their stories

How much do we know about what folks in modern-day military branches are up to, outside of the broad strokes?

The information is out there, Fox News and the History Channel cover it, main stream press pretends it doesn't happen (unless it's negative). If you're connected to the military family community like I am, you hear the stores of modern exploits in detail all the time.

 

[J.T.B.]

And it's interesting that MacLeod had to reach all the way back to Lord Nelson to find a military commander whose exploits were well-known to the general public.

It's hard to compare the media of earlier eras to today's "celebrity culture," because that's a fairly recent thing. But there are many, many examples of military personnel whose exploits became publicly well-known, especially in wartime. Flying aces may be the best-known example. In peacetime, exploration and scientific expeditions have historically attracted a lot of attention; Admiral Byrd was almost certainly the most well-known navy officer in the US before WW2. Maj. John Glenn USMC was in the news and on "Name That Tune" even before he was chosen as a Mercury astronaut because of his record-setting coast-to-coast supersonic flight.

A lot would depend on Starfleet's public affairs stance. If they wanted to spotlight individuals to boost their public image, Kirk would certainly seem a likely candidate. But in comparison with how many others? And would he become a household name, or just be in the news for a few days? Impossible to know.

How much do we know about what folks in modern-day military branches are up to, outside of the broad strokes? We don't typically hear about foiled terrorist threats or every assassination threat against the President, do we?

It still happens in notable incidents. Scott O'Grady, shot down over Bosnia in the '90s, for example, or Shane Osborne, the commander of the USN surveillance plane detained by China in 2001. In the wars of the last decade, there have been plenty of personnel who have made the national news for acts of bravery or heroism, but in a media landscape where Kardashians dominate, it's like a drop in the ocean.

To me, Kirk being a celebrity comes mostly from the movies. There has to be a reason middle-aged, promoted and demoted Kirk and his hand-picked staff stay together as a unit, like their careers are suspended in time. It seems like Starfleet has given Kirk an exemption from its normal practices, and that kind of unique status implies some degree of fame or notoriety. I don't care for it personally, and the way that "elite" vibe continued into TNG really didn't appeal to me.

 

[Timo]

I don't think it's an unclear issue at all. Kirk and his team are not together in the first two movies, until circumstances (such as Kirk) conspire to bring them together. Starfleet has little or nothing to do with it. In the third, the old friends come together against Starfleet's wishes and orders. In the fourth, they save Earth again. And this time, they do so only after Earthlings have had a taste of Armageddon - in ST:TMP, Kirk simply made nothing happen, but here he swept aside the clouds in the sky!

There's thus a very specific point in Kirk's career where he becomes a public figure the public actually knows about. And this is in connection with a trial where his entire posse stands accused, a trial closely connected to the Klingon crisis.

Does the UFP government hush both the crisis and the trial at its nucleus, and invent a cover story for the cloud cover thing? Sounds unlikely. It would thus take quite some PR effort not to connect the fates of the TOS team with that of Kirk there, and in ST5 we see the results, the "careers suspended in time". For all of five or six years, apparently - and this assuming the heroes were still connected to the Enterprise in ST6 career-wise before Spock summoned them for the high-profile final mission.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

I agree that Kirk's "celebrity" status, if we can call it that, seems inexorably linked to a specific incident, namely his stealing the Enterprise and subsequent trial following his saving the entire planet from the whale probe. He's inarguably a V.I.P. in TMP and TWOK, but ultimately is still really just a jobbing Admiral like any other in Starfleet. It's only around TSFS/TVH that he actually seems to be elevated to something close to 'living legend' status in-universe.

In TOS he was simply one Captain among many (and the Enterprise herself was simply one ship among many). I always liked the idea that the original Enterprise's voyages were not anything special, and that there were other ships and crews out there dealing with the same kinds of missions, and with the exact same kinds of responsibilities, as Enterprise and her crew.

 

[J.T.B.]

It would thus take quite some PR effort not to connect the fates of the TOS team with that of Kirk there, and in ST5 we see the results, the "careers suspended in time". For all of five or six years, apparently - and this assuming the heroes were still connected to the Enterprise in ST6 career-wise before Spock summoned them for the high-profile final mission.

Yeah, I should have specified "later movies."

 

[Timo]

We could really confine the damage to ST5, as in ST6 using the Enterprise and Kirk was necessary for psychological reasons. According to Spock at least, and he did have the most experience in dealing with Klingons, especially Klingon politicians. (Although one wonders how much of this Nixon-in-China stuff was planted in his head by Cartwright and perhaps by Chang; the conspirators might have manipulated their respective heads-of-state into suggesting such a thing to Spock.)

Kirk bringing along most of his entourage would then just be Kirk being Kirk. Spock apparently wasn't associated with the Enterprise, what with him having become a cowboy diplomat and all. And McCoy always comes when Kirk asks.

Chekov and Uhura might have been Enterprise officers for all we know; we could play the "their careers stalled because they helped Kirk steal a starship" card, but Sulu sort of contradicts that. And as for Scotty, he might very well be the last man in Starfleet with any knowledge of these Constitution relics.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Uhura was going to be giving a lecture at the Academy. Scott was buying a boat (probably pre-retirement). Kirk asks what they are all doing there. I don't remember what Chekov was suppose to be doing. Spock was playing ambassador. Sulu had his own command.

 

[FormerLurker]

After some thought, I've come to the conclusion that each had their own career planetside, and were only called together for special, showboat occasions, pretty much always directly to the Enterprise. Sulu, in fact, used to called for these things, until he got his promotion. When Kirk and company are called, each in turn, to a special, classified meeting with top brass, including the CIC, it's not the usual procedure for his crew, and that's why he and the rest are confused.

Once Spock shows up, and they get what little explanation is actually forthcoming, they know they have a mission, and a barebones idea of what is expected from it.

 

[Ithekro]

By Star Trek VI, at least part of the crew is expecting to be retired, or at least stand down from USS Enterprise within I guess six months. It has been a number of years since Star Trek V, and thus easily possible for one more Five Year Mission under Captain Kirk, with Sulu leaving during the third or fourth year to become captain of Excelsior. It is more likely though that they some missions, perhaps a short three year mission of exploration before returning to Earth. Enterprise might have become the training cruiser again just like in Star Trek II, but there is less evidence that Enterprise has anything less than a regular crew with a few additions (Valaris for example).

Enterprise also is equipped with gear for studying gaseous anomalies. Perhaps they too were on a mission to do the same as USS Excelsior, but finished earlier and returned to Earth.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Not to digress from the point of this thread, but I think the Excelsior's mission was cover for something more elaborate; they may have been charting gaseous anomalies, but they were probably charting other items as well, including items that would have fired on them if given the chance.

As to your point, I think the Enterprise was involved in short-term missions by the time TUC rolled around. I'd even wager that Kirk and Spock may have commanded missions separately, with one serving as Enterprise captain while the other stayed planetside, perhaps teaching at the Academy. I've always gotten the impression that when Kirk and Spock were reunited at the outset of TUC that they hadn't seen each other in several months.

--Sran