Kirk the womanizer???
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Irregardless of whether Kirk was doing it for the sake of the ship and crew (i.e. to thwart or distract an enemy female), or firing up an old flame, or even just getting his freak on with a new hottie; he always treated his women with respect and they all seemed very happy afterwards (except for Dr. Lester but most men have had at least one psycho-bitch ex-girlfriend). Why is it that just because a man can get himself a larger than average share of feminine attention, people (usually other women) bring up the whole womanizer debate?
Let the Capt get his freak on without all the hate!
Let the Capt get his freak on without all the hate!
That would be Debt of Honor by Chris Claremont. And it's pretty clear that they are still just friends. Kirk is there to see Gracie the Whale give birth. And Gillian is well aware of Kirk's "reputation" and notes that the rest of the crew is worried about her.
If anything, threads like this could be used to support the idea that Kirk is 100% gay or asexual and only ever interacts with women to further his Starfleet mission. And that his siring David was something forced upon him by the government, much like his sharing a bed with the Scalosian queen was done at gunpoint.
Since Kirk is a starship captain, it's only to be expected that lots of people will be pretending to be attracted to him or otherwise impressed by him in order to benefit from his great powers and resources. Nor is it unexpected for lots of people to truly be attracted, impressed or even pathologically obsessed with a man of such power, quite regardless of whether Kirk is objectively attractive as a person, and never mind what he himself thinks of the whole issue!
A milder argument can be made that Kirk has a very specific range of interests: must be blonde, must be mature, must be from outside Starfleet. Ruth and Carol fit the pattern, and are Kirk's self-confessed actual interests or fantasies; Antonia could be a repeat for all we know. Brunettes, young women and Starfleet employees won't cut it.
With the possible exception of the android Rayna, who wasn't particularly mature-looking. Then again, Kirk might have faked that one, too: he'd realize that Rayna was key to defeating Flint's constant delaying and stonewalling, and that all other venues (such as those pursued by McCoy and Spock) would be dead ends. Sure, he's also emotionally moved, but not the way one would at first assume. At the end, he doesn't mourn Rayna the machine, he explicitly mourns Flint the man...
Timo Saloniemi
Since Kirk is a starship captain, it's only to be expected that lots of people will be pretending to be attracted to him or otherwise impressed by him in order to benefit from his great powers and resources. Nor is it unexpected for lots of people to truly be attracted, impressed or even pathologically obsessed with a man of such power, quite regardless of whether Kirk is objectively attractive as a person, and never mind what he himself thinks of the whole issue!
A milder argument can be made that Kirk has a very specific range of interests: must be blonde, must be mature, must be from outside Starfleet. Ruth and Carol fit the pattern, and are Kirk's self-confessed actual interests or fantasies; Antonia could be a repeat for all we know. Brunettes, young women and Starfleet employees won't cut it.
With the possible exception of the android Rayna, who wasn't particularly mature-looking. Then again, Kirk might have faked that one, too: he'd realize that Rayna was key to defeating Flint's constant delaying and stonewalling, and that all other venues (such as those pursued by McCoy and Spock) would be dead ends. Sure, he's also emotionally moved, but not the way one would at first assume. At the end, he doesn't mourn Rayna the machine, he explicitly mourns Flint the man...
Timo Saloniemi
But she looked about 25. Actually, actress Barbara Anderson was only 20 (born November 27, 1945) when “The Conscience of the King” was filmed.
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
I don't think he was faking it with Rayna and according to the story line he falls ever so deeply in love with her that a compassionate Spock ends the show by touching the sleeping Kirk's head in a mind-meld type fashion and utters the suggestion "forget." A wonderful cure for a broken heart which has caused many I am sure to wish they had a Vulcan friend who could help them in this way during a bad break-up. Although he may have mourned for Flint, I think he was defintely in mourning for Rayna who "became" human just before she died once she gained the ability to think for herself and demand the right to choose (i.e. gained a sense of her own individuality = got a soul, etc...).
Now, that is the story but I have always found it so incredibly unrealistic that a man of Kirk's years and experience could fall so hard so fast for someone (android or not). I always felt that aspect of the plot was a bit forced.
The less-successful episodes like "Requiem for Methuselah" really remind us of how tough it can be to tell a convincing love story in 40-60 minutes. The writing has to be pretty top notch and the actors have to have a convincing chemistry on top of that. When it works, you get something great like "City on the Edge of Forever." When it doesn't...
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
True, but in COTEOF, Kirk had spent quite a bit more time there (I think it is estimated at about a couple of weeks), plus a part of him had resigned himself to the possibility that he might spend the rest of his life in the past with Edith. He was also taken by Edith's "futuristic" views on humanity which were in keeping with the philosophy and dominant discourse of his own time (the 23rd century). In other words, his mindframe was quite different and the conditions were more conducive to falling in love. With RFM, they are there for a matter of hours, the crew is dying, and all he really did was have a short dance with Rayna and play some pool with her.
Ladies, take note: The way to a man’s heart is a dance and a game of pool!
You don't want to know what I was about to post...
Like I said, the writing in COTEOF is a lot better.
Flint recognized that Kirk might be able to spark or influence Rayna's emotional development and so he made certain they spent time together. But although it isn't spelled out in the episode the only way the episode makes sense is if Kirk is being manipulated on some other non-obvious level. Perhaps there was some agent enacted by Kirk touching Rayna or something else that affected Kirk to respond strongly to her much like he was affected by Elan's tears in "Elan Of Troyius."
You know that's not outside the realm of possibility. Some men (and women) can be quite guarded and usually in control, but when they do fall they fall hard.
Or being manipulative.
In their first encounter, Kirk stands off and observes while McCoy falls head over heels for Rayna. When Flint then continues to push Rayna into the collective arms of our heroes by suggesting social intercourse, Kirk waits to see what Flint has in mind, then when nothing happens confronts Flint once more for the rhyetalyn, and when it becomes clear that the socializing is more important for Flint (he basically invites Rayna to dance with Jim on Jim's behalf!) than the medicine, only then does Kirk dive for the girl. After filing a log entry where he expresses doubt that his previous approaches would ever work!
It sounds like a very deliberate stratagem for Kirk. He sees through Flint's ploys and dismisses the ideas of Spock and McCoy as being of secondary import because he knows Rayna is the key here.
The first time we might say Kirk is being emotional over Rayna is his line "I don't like the way he orders her around". But basically Kirk is just listing Flint's many peculiarities, trying to find a pattern. And he finds one: Flint is playing games in which the only winning move on Kirk's part is to goad Flint with things relating to Rayna.
That first line of emotion is also the very last one: Kirk and Rayna don't really interact romantically at any point, and Kirk doesn't long for her in any scene...
...Least of all the final one. Not a single mention of Rayna. Not a single reference to the putative romance. Plenty of references to Flint, tho. McCoy is clearly making a big mistake in thinking that Kirk ought to forget about Rayna - the android has probably slipped Jim's mind already!
Timo Saloniemi
A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
Kirk seems passionate enough about her though. He essentially tells Spock to mind his own business while wrestling Flint and tells him "Stay out of this. We're fighting over a woman." Before that there is the whole bit about "I can't love her, but I do love her." Kirk hurtfully tells Flint that Flint used him and demonstrated a great deal of pain in expressing this. Watch the scene again.
Also, if Kirk is not lamenting Rayna, then what exactly is Spock mind-melding him to forget during the last scene? I think we are supposed to believe that Kirk has a strong emotional investment in Rayna but it falls flat because that element of the script was poorly constructed. Now had the script been revised along the lines which your rationalization suggests, that would have worked a lot better I think. It pains me that it was written better because RFM has always been one of my favorite episodes. It is a great story otherwise. James Daly is excellent! He deserved a better script.
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