• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Kirk Making the Kobayashi Maru Test Too Easy

Kirk's cocky attitude about the reprogram is the saving grace; as somebody pointed out already, he made no attempt to hide the fact.

He didn't feel he was cheating, and that's why there's no sympathy needed at the hearing. It was all out there, as far as he was concerned. He didn't believe in the no-win scenario.

Spock's pulling no punches about George Kirk's no-win scenario was riveting -- and the key to Jim Kirk's motivation. It was a tight, well-done scene; and as soon as the point was made, they had someone interrupt with an urgent message and it was on to another focus.
While some have criticized Kirk for his attempt to "emotionally unbalance" Spock with reference to his mother, and it certainly seemed rather heartless and cruel to anyone not in on the reason for it, I took his use of Amanda's death as, at least, some attempt at "payback" for the way Spock rather cavalierly used George Kirk's death as a bit of a "slap in the face" to Kirk. Anyone else see it this way?
 
I had the feeling Kirk didn't throw out that comment as easily as he made it look. That he did it, because he thought he had to.
 
I think they both did it because they had to. Spock had a lot invested in the test; he believed in the essential reason for it -- and in fact, he was convincing.
 
I had the feeling Kirk didn't throw out that comment as easily as he made it look. That he did it, because he thought he had to.
Perhaps. I still think something like that would have influenced the examples he chose in an attempt to "unbalance" Spock (not to mention it provides another, though rather superficial, point of commonality about them--as their somewhat unhappy childhoods in parallel demonstrated). Still, I could be totally over analyzing this point (this is, after all, a Star Trek forum ;) ).
 
I think they both did it because they had to. Spock had a lot invested in the test; he believed in the essential reason for it -- and in fact, he was convincing.
Spock did not have to employ the tone he used when referring to Kirk's father, though. He seemed to be relishing putting the "challenger" in his place just a touch in that sequence.
 
I think the fact that Cadet Kirk hammed up his performance so much showed that he wasn't hiding the fact that he was 'cheating'. He was giving them the raspberry! With an apple.
That's Kirk!

Exactly what I was thinking! This way he let everyone know what he thought, and didn't hide anything.
Thing is, in the movie, did they explain that Kirk reprogrammed the computer? From what I recall it seems like he just did it and the officer asked Spock how this kid beat his program.
 
I thought the whole thing played into Kirk's retelling of the story in TWOK, especially since he was also eating an apple, right before his "I don't like to lose" line. In TWOK, Kirk knew the Enterprise wasn't going anywhere, and they were going to be picked up, just like with the test he set up. He knew what the outcome was going to be.

If it looked like he really beat the test, it would look really bad for him once they found out he cheated. He wasn't doing it to say he won. Doing it the way he did, by making a show of it, he was making a point. He wanted everyone to know he didn't agree with the whole point of the test in the first place.


-Chris
 
I think the whole scene would have played out better in the movie if they had stuck with Peter Davids version of The Famous Captain Kirk part...
That would have been better...
 
If he had changed it to be barely winnable he would have looked like a huge dick when the truth came out. As is, he only kinda looks like a dick.

Pretty much. If he'd made it barely possible, it would have looked like he was just trying to stuff his crotch. As it is, he did it brazenly to make his statement about no-win scenarios.

It's funny that this reboot has better continuity in some ways than "canon" Trek did. If this had been Voyager or Enterprise, you just know that Kirk would have done it the first time, and made it look difficult/tried to get away with it.
 
I think they both did it because they had to. Spock had a lot invested in the test; he believed in the essential reason for it -- and in fact, he was convincing.
Spock did not have to employ the tone he used when referring to Kirk's father, though. He seemed to be relishing putting the "challenger" in his place just a touch in that sequence.
Yes, he did. Kirk is the toughest of characters.

We see the two of them on an equal footing, a good basis for what is to come.
 
I think they both did it because they had to. Spock had a lot invested in the test; he believed in the essential reason for it -- and in fact, he was convincing.
Spock did not have to employ the tone he used when referring to Kirk's father, though. He seemed to be relishing putting the "challenger" in his place just a touch in that sequence.
Yes, he did. Kirk is the toughest of characters.

We see the two of them on an equal footing, a good basis for what is to come.
It was a choice, not a requirement, for Spock to use that tone with that example. In his precise situation, I may well have chosen the same path. What I'm trying to get at (and I'm not expressing it as clearly as I would like, I think) is that a consequence of Spock's choice of example and tone was Kirk's own choice in the later confrontation between the two. I simply think Kirk would have been more reluctant to "go there" with regards to Amanda had Spock not opened that door earlier on.

The only reason I brought it up was as a possible mitigating factor against some of the heavy criticism Kirk's actions in that instance ("unbalancing" Spock) have generated. ("there's no way anyone would follow Kirk after he'd stooped to that level" or some variation thereof) I think part of the reason that Kirk is not immediately and forever loathed by everyone on the bridge at that moment is because several of them witnessed Spock's reference to Kirk's father.

Again, probably overthinking it at this hour. On that note, I'm off to bed.
 
Ovation, I do see your point, and it's a good one. Those two incidences are bookends, and it makes a nice, logical pattern.
 
Ovation, I do see your point, and it's a good one. Those two incidences are bookends, and it makes a nice, logical pattern.
That's what I was trying to say (much more cumbersomely). And now I'm really off to sleep.:techman:
 
in the game Starfleet Academy, there is an option to reprogram the computer so the klingons answers kirk's hail, and change the personality of the klingon captains so that they fear and respect kirk's reputation. The klingons still attacked but they were much more cautious and didnt go all out all him, thus letting kirk show off his combat skills by pick off the klingon ships 1 by 1, and winning the battle.

it shows off kirk's skill as a commander and only semi cheated the test. This is how I always imagined how kirk would of handle it.
 
I had a similar "This not what I expected" reaction at first.

I think because the sequence in TWOK is misleadingly played to be real. Opening the film with the appearance of drama. Also to trick audiences into thinking that Spock fake death meant he was safe. But within this film that would have been the wrong tone. The story and scene is from Kirk's perspective. He knows that this is just a simulation and so do we. We share his enjoyment. It and the following hearing are now some of my favorites in the whole movie.

I figure these events, Kirk and Spock's first meeting, where basically the same in the original timeline. Does everyone agree?
 
Kirk wasn't trying to hide that he cheated. Hiding that he cheated would be cowardly. He was going for the out of the box solution; precisely the officer quality that Pike felt Starfleet needed more of. I really wish we had seen more of an argument between Kirk and Spock about the test in the movie.
 
I had a similar "This not what I expected" reaction at first.

I think because the sequence in TWOK is misleadingly played to be real. Opening the film with the appearance of drama. Also to trick audiences into thinking that Spock fake death meant he was safe. But within this film that would have been the wrong tone. The story and scene is from Kirk's perspective. He knows that this is just a simulation and so do we. We share his enjoyment. It and the following hearing are now some of my favorites in the whole movie.

I figure these events, Kirk and Spock's first meeting, where basically the same in the original timeline. Does everyone agree?

The way I see it, TOS Kirk's solution is very different from JJ Kirk's solution. TOS Kirk changed the scenario so its possible to rescue Kobiyashi Maru and he got a recommendation for original thinking from his instructors at the Academy. Given that JJ Kirk so balantly cheated, none of JJ Kirk's instructors would ever award him with the recommendation.
 
I took his use of Amanda's death as, at least, some attempt at "payback" for the way Spock rather cavalierly used George Kirk's death as a bit of a "slap in the face" to Kirk. Anyone else see it this way?

It's certainly parallel, as the two events are themselves parallel, isn't it? This movie is better written than some folks are giving credit for.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top