Kirk is better then Picard

[Anwar]

Piccard is more ethical than kirk, but still kirk is good.

I find it hard to accept that holding up 'keeping your hands clean' while advocating genocide 'just 'cause a civilization doesn't have warp yet' equates to ethics in any way, shape, or form. In a lot of ways, Picard was a unethical monster, the worst product a UN-like Federation, though damn if he didn't keep his hands 'clean'.

(And, yes, that was a product of the times. Political correctness of the 1990s and all.)

There were bigger issues and a bigger picture to consider there, it wasn't as black and white as you say it was. It's been discussed in the PD thread in the general discussion.

 

[Vance]

There were bigger issues and a bigger picture to consider there, it wasn't as black and white as you say it was. It's been discussed in the PD thread in the general discussion.

Yeah, the 'bigger picture', and I'm sure they were just 'following orders' as well. What's a little willful genocide when there's a class M planet that will soon be uninhabited, right?

That's what I meant about 'keeping hands clean', by simply not doing anything they claim a moral superiority. Nothing's ever their fault, because they're just not involved. Sure, billions of lives were lost needlessly, but it would have been wrong and arrogant, somehow, to do anything about it - even if the inhabitants would never need known that we did.

And, hey, if it's our own people being systematically murdered along the frontier because we signed a treaty that screwed them over and then did nothing to ensure their safety - well, that's okay too. Our hands are clean, and we made damn sure to wash them.

Kirk was better than Picard for the simple reason that he would act to do the right thing and live with the consequences ("I'm throwing my career away, but how could I do less.") even if it meant disobeying orders. Picard was a politically correct shill that believed following orders (or at least having political support when he couldn't) was always the right thing.

 

[Anwar]

Go read that "PD" thread on general discussions, the "bigger picture" I outlined is right there and it has nothing to do with your silly "It's wrong to obey orders" BS.

The DMZ folks? It was their own fault for settling there in the first place, they were told not to and when the Feds warned them again and offered to relocate them out of a place that was always unstable they refused it and told the Feds they were okay with it. Then when the going got tough they quickly retracted their "we can deal" attitude and hypocritically asked the Feds for help. When the Feds got the situation settled to the point that they could've brokered piece they DMZ folks refused again to keep fighting.

Your "we must always take matters int our own hands and damn everything except the immediate situation" attitude is bad, bad bad.

 

[trevanian]

Go read that "PD" thread on general discussions, the "bigger picture" I outlined is right there and it has nothing to do with your silly "It's wrong to obey orders" BS.

The DMZ folks? It was their own fault for settling there in the first place, they were told not to and when the Feds warned them again and offered to relocate them out of a place that was always unstable they refused it and told the Feds they were okay with it. Then when the going got tough they quickly retracted their "we can deal" attitude and hypocritically asked the Feds for help. When the Feds got the situation settled to the point that they could've brokered piece they DMZ folks refused again to keep fighting.
.

There was a ton of backpedalling and changing of minds about 'tudes bts on that stuff, so there is inconsistency. The Maquis are the only people I find interesting in 24th century (outside of Garak and Barclay), and it is because they are operating in a way I understand (able to run out of supplies, magic box tech is not in every alcove) and their motivations are passionate.

If Kirk wound up in century 24 in a non-nexus way, I'd like to think he'd've gone maquis. Then again, I think he should have kept the BOP and became a Private Enterprise with his aging crew, just to stay clear of all this starfleet/fed crap that weighed the movies down so badly.

 

[Anwar]

I stopped finding the Maquis interesting once they rejected the peace deal brokered for them in favor of continued warfare and death, starting attacking vessels outside the DMZ and started using bio-weapons on entire planets full of innocent people. Of course I did like the hypocrisy when Eddington whined about the Maquis planet getting bio-bombed.