Having a bowling team doesn't necessarily mean there's an alley. Could be VR.
Kirk drift—misremembering a character…
- Thread starter Warped9
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Okay, I'll have to be more explicit the next time I mention the bowling alley in a book.
I did manage to work the swimming pool into another Trek novel.
Which one was that?I did manage to work the swimming pool into another Trek novel.
How often did Spock and McCoy argue, really? I know their (apparent) rivalry is legendary.
Okay, I'll have to be more explicit the next time I mention the bowling alley in a book.
I did manage to work the swimming pool into another Trek novel.
What constitutes a bowling alley? Something like the large area, taking up most of a building, that you might rent for a party today, or just a couple of lanes? Or maybe a room that can be set up for bowling but can double as various things, like the actual sets were used?
I'd like to envision that the ship has at least one chapel at all times for off-duty personnel visit for quiet spirituality, but would the ship really have a theatre? It would seem more likely that it has a large meeting room that can be re-purposed for various uses, but that in an emergency involving a guy running with a phaser, Kirk would not have said, "Riley is running for that big recreation room we used for various purposes!"
As to the acid, I never considered the idea it could have been cleaned up in only one universe. I wonder how fans would react to that being stated onscreen.
"No Time Like the Past." The Seven of Nine/TOS crossover book.
Ah. I've read that, but had forgotten that little bit.
It's funny how interpretations differ - and here comes my standard observation about how much I love this board. I thought/think the dialogue is explicit on that point:
MCCOY: What is this? Everything's all messed up and changed around, out of place.
UHURA: Captain, what's happened?
MCCOY: No, not everything. That spot, I spilt acid there a year ago. Jim, What in blazes is this?
So isn't Bones saying that unlike everything else being all messed up, a spot remains that's consistent with his memory, but was cleaned up on our Enterprise? I always took it that way because otherwise, why mention it?
@Phaser Two
I always took that to mean it was a point of consistency between the two universes, that both tables had an acid stain in the same spot. Something that was the same and a data point which leads into Kirk's next line.
I always took that to mean it was a point of consistency between the two universes, that both tables had an acid stain in the same spot. Something that was the same and a data point which leads into Kirk's next line.
KIRK: I don't know. It's our Enterprise but it isn't.
And later in the same scene (emphasis added).KIRK: Yes, here. Not our universe, not our ship. Something parallel. A parallel universe co-existing with ours on another dimensional plane. Everything's duplicated, almost. Another Enterprise.
Acid as a 1960s drug reference? I never thought of that. But I also never recognized the acid reference in the fourth act of "The Way to Eden," either.
Anyhow, since we're on the subject, I will re-post my long-held theory about the mirror universe:
In a world where everybody behaves differently and follows different rules, the same individuals would not meet and marry, and the same children would not be conceived and born, to say nothing of grow up to have matching careers aboard the Enterprise.
I believe the only way "Mirror, Mirror" can work is if the magnetic storm, combined with the transporter beam, actually created the mirror universe in that instant. And it doesn't have to be a whole universe (that takes a lot of energy), it just has to be the Halkins and the Enterprise, while the distant stars they see are just instantly-created light reaching them, not from actual MU stars. There's only this bubble in another dimension, not a whole universe.
The MU is like a damaged, imperfect photocopy: flashed into existence, and bearing too strong a resemblance to the real universe it was struck from, to be anything but a copy. That's why the same individuals exist, and why they were beaming up at the same instant, and they either fit into each other's clothes, or traded their minds. They couldn't not fit.
This also means that when the "doorway" is closing between the two universes, that's the countdown for the MU to vanish from existence completely. It can't be permanent because it's just a fragment, a bubble, that was copied into being by a magnetic storm. The evil characters' heads are full of instantly-created "memories," but none of their prior lives really happened.
The spinoff series get it wrong completely, daring to suggest that wildly different events in the MU 23rd century would somehow lead parents to conceive and raise persons who perfectly match the spinoff prime-universe characters in the 24th century. That goes beyond "anything can happen" sci-fi (Gary Mitchell, Trelane), and into the realm of self-contradictory nonsense, in my view.
That is pretty much what I thought: we were supposed to believe both universes had tables with spills. Acid would have damaged the table even if it was cleaned up.
Depends on the type of acid (and solution strength). Some may leave no trace if promptly cleaned up, others will immediately begin reacting with the material of the countertop surface.
I always took it to mean that whatever had been spilled left a permanently-etched spot of damage on the tabletop, even after proper cleanup of the spill. That it also appeared in the mirror-universe counterpart of Sick Bay served as confirmation that--regardless of all the other things which differed--this particular mark was consistent between both versions of the Enterprise.
Yeah, that's a good solid interpretation that I did not think of in 45+ years. I just figured that as pristine as Starfleet kept the Enterprise, the spot had long ago been dealt with in our universe, but McCoy's seeing it and saying, "Whoa. Look at this spot that I obviously had cleaned up. It's still there." Given the inherently dangerous-sounding nature of an "acid spill" (wink, wink), this fits with the only other sickbay reference - the orderlies betting on the pain tolerance of an injured man. Also, it seems like there were other, more innocuous things to remark about if he wanted to establish similarity. "Everything's messed up - except this: that bottle of Miralax I picked up on Rigel VII, Jim! It's still right where I left it."
@ZapBrannigan I've read that take on the mirror universe before (may have been you 
) but it doesn't work for me because of the existence of technologies that aren't in the prime one (agonizers, the Tantalus field) and because the mirror universe Spock contacts and hears back from "Starfleet Command."
I've long held that there is some physics of locality to this universe hopping. Yes, there are infinite universes but the ones that are easiest to get to—the ones that require the least energy—are the one that are similar to the prime one. It's like colors on a color wheel.
) but it doesn't work for me because of the existence of technologies that aren't in the prime one (agonizers, the Tantalus field) and because the mirror universe Spock contacts and hears back from "Starfleet Command."I've long held that there is some physics of locality to this universe hopping. Yes, there are infinite universes but the ones that are easiest to get to—the ones that require the least energy—are the one that are similar to the prime one. It's like colors on a color wheel.
(ahem) WHAT?!?!?
In the middle of a discussion (that seemed to come out of nowhere) about McCoy not being literal in his description of tribbles, I offered another McCoy fact (that we ALSO have zero reason to dispute) that I "humorously" described as "made up".
Oy!
Damage to a table resulting from a spill can't be moved as easily as a bottle can. Perhaps a better example would be the placement of a particular heavy piece of equipment. ("That shelving unit, the one I had moved last year when we had all those burn patients and needed extra room for emergency cots, it's still in that corner.")
And then right after that interview, the introspective and enlightened GR went off to go sleep with his assistant Susan Sackett.
^^ 100%. I'd give this comment a standing ovation if I could.
At least two of whom tracked the days since he last saw them.
Agreed. What TOS shows Kirk as is a serial monogamist. He's had a number of serious and deep relationships in his past that have usually ended for career reasons. He wishes he could have something like that in his life right now, but he knows that's not really possible as long as he's commanding the Enterprise. ("No beach to walk on.")
Heck, if you want a contemporary comparison, Napoleon Solo from The Man From U.N.C.L.E. was shown as much more of a womanizer than Kirk ever was, because he was conceived as a hero in the James Bond mold.
Yes. A missed opportunity, to be sure. TOS was very good with representation for its day, but they certainly could've done better in places.
Well, it's come out since then that Vic Mignogna doesn't have the best track record when it comes to women, so in retrospect it's perhaps not too surprising.
Yep! Kirk and Janice Lester spent an entire year together when they were at Starfleet Academy. I assume she just got nuttier over time, as Kirk is usually a much better judge of character than that.
"I'd still like a Vulcan there, if possible."
When it comes down to a choice between "Starfleet is a sexist organization that doesn't allow women to be Captains in the 23rd Century" and "This character who appears for all of one episode and is never mentioned again is delusional," I know which option I'm picking.
The first option does massive damage to the very premise of the show in order to preserve a not that great episode. The second one does not.
Yeah, that's how I view it too. If it's a parallel universe, all of the continuity differences don't bother me as much.
A twist that happens in one of the most famous Sherlock Holmes stories!
The Hound of the Baskervilles
It's a little-known fact that Kirk actually took Helen Noel bowling the night of the infamous Christmas party.
...Is it wrong that I read this in the voice of Cliff Clavin?
Are you suggesting that Janice Lester was the blond lab technician that Gary Mitchell stirred his way? Now it makes more sense that she was a Mitchell selection rather than a Kirk selection addressing the judge of character issue.
Oh! We're on topic! I wasn't expecting that.
I would argue (convincingly or otherwise) that the more serious, "dour", dare I say lonely Captain Kirk was more in line with Roddenberry's original intent. Based on his first season (certainly early first season) portrayal and GR's notion of basing Kirk on Horatio Hornblower. Hornblower is a man riddled with self-consciousness, doubt, anxiety who... manages to be nearly perfect at most things he tries and manages to have an affair even while a prisoner of war. Not really sure what way I'm arguing there, to be honest. I suppose it's a question of balance.
I think the actor in the role and other writers / producers (Gene Coon) gave us a more larger than life hero at times with more of the Kirk swagger that we know and love. Then you throw in season 3 where we really did start to get the "girl of the week" (whether she was involved with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, or Chekov -- Did I miss anyone?) and you start to get the "Kirk goes after anything that moves and is nominally female" rep.
I would argue (convincingly or otherwise) that the more serious, "dour", dare I say lonely Captain Kirk was more in line with Roddenberry's original intent. Based on his first season (certainly early first season) portrayal and GR's notion of basing Kirk on Horatio Hornblower. Hornblower is a man riddled with self-consciousness, doubt, anxiety who... manages to be nearly perfect at most things he tries and manages to have an affair even while a prisoner of war. Not really sure what way I'm arguing there, to be honest. I suppose it's a question of balance.
I think the actor in the role and other writers / producers (Gene Coon) gave us a more larger than life hero at times with more of the Kirk swagger that we know and love. Then you throw in season 3 where we really did start to get the "girl of the week" (whether she was involved with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, or Chekov -- Did I miss anyone?) and you start to get the "Kirk goes after anything that moves and is nominally female" rep.
Are you suggesting that Janice Lester was the blond lab technician that Gary Mitchell stirred his way? Now it makes more sense that she was a Mitchell selection rather than a Kirk selection addressing the judge of character issue.
Hmmm...I could see that.
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