S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
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i expect nothing less than full-on gay sex. followed by a line from Spock "It was, the logical thing to do, at the time" *raise eyebrow*
Kirk and Spock's relationship
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Because it's fun?
The idea that the K/S thing is "laughable" is itself kind of silly since it has persisted as an active aspect of the Trek phenomenon for almost as long as "Star Trek" itself has existed - longer than an awful lot of folks have been fans - and shows no signs of dying out anytime soon. It's as much a part of fandom as conventions. 
No one can stop it anyway, well not unless they cast Adam Sandler as Kirk and even then I have faith in the slash crowd that they could overcome even an obstacle as extreme as that.
True but it still doesn't make it anything but laughable. Whining about canon is a part of TRek fandom and it's still laughable most of the time.UWC Defiance said:
The idea that the K/S thing is "laughable" is itself kind of silly since it has persisted as an active aspect of the Trek phenomenon for almost as long as "Star Trek" itself has existed - longer than an awful lot of folks have been fans - and shows no signs of dying out anytime soon. It's as much a part of fandom as conventions.
Jack Bauer said:
True but it still doesn't make it anything but laughable. Whining about canon is a part of TRek fandom and it's still laughable most of the time.UWC Defiance said:
The idea that the K/S thing is "laughable" is itself kind of silly since it has persisted as an active aspect of the Trek phenomenon for almost as long as "Star Trek" itself has existed - longer than an awful lot of folks have been fans - and shows no signs of dying out anytime soon. It's as much a part of fandom as conventions.
Yeah, if some Trek fans know so little about relationships that they mistake brotherly love for romance, well, that's just another peice of meaningless fandom which has always remained below the radar of anyone with half a wit.
Why is a close relationship between men has to have a hint of being gay?
Women have close relationships and nobody talks about them being lesbians unless they are in fact so.
In my judgment, to play being gay or lesbian into a close same gender relationship is more of a male fantasy then a female fantasy.
Women have close relationships and nobody talks about them being lesbians unless they are in fact so.
In my judgment, to play being gay or lesbian into a close same gender relationship is more of a male fantasy then a female fantasy.
Exactly.
Because some people laugh at it doesn't make it any more foolish than any other aspect of fandom.
There are fans who think that "Star Trek" represents some optimistic philosophy about the future of humanity. Haw.
A favorite "Peanuts" cartoon has several of the kids laughing at a picture in a magazine. When Charlie Brown asks them why they find it funny, they reply with a solemn "because we don't understand it."
actually, I believe slash fiction was started by straight female fans, if I have my history correct. There was a great book "Enterprising Women" about female fanfic.
That said, I am also annoyed at the thought that men can't be close without being gay. I actually think that's a regressive, as opposed to gay-friendly idea, because it presupposes this idea that men can only have feelings where sex is involved.
Still, THAT said, sometimes the hostility to slash can seem a little tinged wih homophobia, IMO.
The slash culture, albeit immature, has a long history in fandom. Doesn't mean it has to be portrayed in the movies, though.
That said, I am also annoyed at the thought that men can't be close without being gay. I actually think that's a regressive, as opposed to gay-friendly idea, because it presupposes this idea that men can only have feelings where sex is involved.
Still, THAT said, sometimes the hostility to slash can seem a little tinged wih homophobia, IMO.
The slash culture, albeit immature, has a long history in fandom. Doesn't mean it has to be portrayed in the movies, though.
I agree that it's probably more common in these situations, but it's not because it's a "male fantasy." Rather, it's a symptom of a peculiar pathology... and that particular pathology is more common among men than women. (Note: I am no describing homosexuality as pathological here... only one specific type of personality... and this personality can express itself in homosexual or heterosexual form depending on the person showing that pathology).
Basically, I'm talking about people who have very little experience with viewing other human beings as PEOPLE. Instead, they view other people as "things." You don't appreciate another person because of who that person is, only for what that person can do for you (or what you can do to that person, in this case).
So, this sort of person sees a woman in a position as boss, and assumes that she got there because she "screwed her way to the top." This person sees two men who have sincere, but NON-SEXUAL affection for one another and assumes that this means that they're "getting something" from each other.
It's a pathology. People who understand normal, healthy relationships (including sexuality or not!) tend not to leap to conclusions about this sort of thing. But people who tend to objectify others will invariably insert "objectification" into any relationship that they see. (Why would Kirk and Spock be close unless they're getting sex out of it, right?... so the argument goes.)
Fans are ridiculously defensive about this stuff. Roddenberry's novelization of the first movie contains a lengthy, tongue-in-cheek footnote in Kirk's voice that consists of an evasive "non-denial denial" of the K/S stuff - and that's been waved like a flag by some folks as a final putting-down of the slash insurrection ever since.
I agree completely.
