Hi all,
I saw the film for the second time this week and something struck me that I want to ask about.
When Kirk and Spock first meet, they don't like each other. They continue not liking each other for quite a while. Kirk sees Spock as an officious blowhard, and Spock sees Kirk as a reckless threat to the safety of the ship.
Enter Old Spock, who informs Kirk that in fact he and Spock are supposed to be great pals. He says some other stuff, including that Kirk has to take command of the ship and to do that, he has to get Spock mad.
Which Kirk does. He says a lot of very nasty stuff to Spock, and totally pi$$es the Vulcan off. Spock blows, almost takes out Kirk's trachea, then excuses himself. Kirk takes command.
The rest of the movie happens, Kirk saves Spock's butt, and at the end they kinda get along, and Old Spock tells Young Spock once again that he really wants the Vulcan to know the value of having Kirk's friendship.
That's nice, BUT - we never see Kirk apologize or explain to Spock why he said those awful things about Spock's mother, and forced him to compromise himself to get command of the ship. Spock might have figured it out - or maybe Old Spock told him - but still, what do you guys think the basis of this friendship is going to be?
After all, nobody can just *tell* you, "Oh, you're going to be best friends with this person" and expect it to happen. There has to be a foundation, and while I can see Spock respecting Kirk for his shooting ability, I'm not sure what's going to take the relationship from mutual respect to true friendship. In fact, if I was Spock I'd be kind of angry at Kirk for pushing my buttons like that just so he could get the ship - and I'd be wondering what other emotional manipulations he's capable of.
I guess what I'm saying is, I can see how Spock would respect Kirk's ability, but there might be barriers to a true friendship that weren't there in the TOS. Kirk kicked Spock in the balls, so to speak, and if we buy that this Spock is more emotionally vulnerable he might hesitate to get close to a Kirk who plays games like that. And will this Kirk be open to the values of Spock's logical mind, or will he brush them off as he rushes to the next shoot em up in space?
And do you think Old Spock should have pushed the friendship on both Kirk and Spock, or kept his mouth shut and let it happen naturally? What do you think would have happened if he'd said nothing?
To sum up: is this going to be a different Kirk-Spock friendship? Or similar to the first?
And, as a bonus question: what do you think McCoy's role in the future friendships is going to be? Different or the same as the series?
I saw the film for the second time this week and something struck me that I want to ask about.
When Kirk and Spock first meet, they don't like each other. They continue not liking each other for quite a while. Kirk sees Spock as an officious blowhard, and Spock sees Kirk as a reckless threat to the safety of the ship.
Enter Old Spock, who informs Kirk that in fact he and Spock are supposed to be great pals. He says some other stuff, including that Kirk has to take command of the ship and to do that, he has to get Spock mad.
Which Kirk does. He says a lot of very nasty stuff to Spock, and totally pi$$es the Vulcan off. Spock blows, almost takes out Kirk's trachea, then excuses himself. Kirk takes command.
The rest of the movie happens, Kirk saves Spock's butt, and at the end they kinda get along, and Old Spock tells Young Spock once again that he really wants the Vulcan to know the value of having Kirk's friendship.
That's nice, BUT - we never see Kirk apologize or explain to Spock why he said those awful things about Spock's mother, and forced him to compromise himself to get command of the ship. Spock might have figured it out - or maybe Old Spock told him - but still, what do you guys think the basis of this friendship is going to be?
After all, nobody can just *tell* you, "Oh, you're going to be best friends with this person" and expect it to happen. There has to be a foundation, and while I can see Spock respecting Kirk for his shooting ability, I'm not sure what's going to take the relationship from mutual respect to true friendship. In fact, if I was Spock I'd be kind of angry at Kirk for pushing my buttons like that just so he could get the ship - and I'd be wondering what other emotional manipulations he's capable of.
I guess what I'm saying is, I can see how Spock would respect Kirk's ability, but there might be barriers to a true friendship that weren't there in the TOS. Kirk kicked Spock in the balls, so to speak, and if we buy that this Spock is more emotionally vulnerable he might hesitate to get close to a Kirk who plays games like that. And will this Kirk be open to the values of Spock's logical mind, or will he brush them off as he rushes to the next shoot em up in space?
And do you think Old Spock should have pushed the friendship on both Kirk and Spock, or kept his mouth shut and let it happen naturally? What do you think would have happened if he'd said nothing?
To sum up: is this going to be a different Kirk-Spock friendship? Or similar to the first?
And, as a bonus question: what do you think McCoy's role in the future friendships is going to be? Different or the same as the series?
