Kirk and Pike's command styles: your thoughts?

[AlanC9]

Thing is: In The Cage pilot we never saw Christopher Pike's 'normal' command style.

Pike was still recovering both physically and mentally from an incident just a week earlier where on a landing party, he was still questioning his Command Decisions due to the fact that members of the Landing party were either killed outright, or badly injured.

It affected him so much he was considering resigning his Commission. At the end of the episode he seems to have a better handle on everything, and at that point, is more like his old self.
^^^
But we the audience never got to see that part of him because this was the only Star Trek episode to feature him in an active role until Star Trek Discovery Season 2.

Points well taken.

In retrospect, though, this makes The Cage a bizarre choice for a pilot script.

 

[Yistaan]

Q&A says that Pike was the most heavily decorated fighting captain in Starfleet as of 2254. So far there are no major confirmed wars in the period Pike was in command from 2250-2254. Who exactly was he fighting that he got the reputation for being not just a fighting captain but the biggest one there is? Because his characterization doesn't come across that way at all in SNW.

 

[Noname Given]

Points well taken.

In retrospect, though, this makes The Cage a bizarre choice for a pilot script.

I agree (and apparently so did the Network; which is one reason they rejected it. And I don't buy GR's claim that the reason was they felt it was too cerebral as it pretty much has the same amount (and honestly "Where No Man... actually has a little less action) of 'action to psychological discussion' ration as the second pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before, which ultimately sold the series.

The main difference is where/when the 'action' occurs. The majority of the action sequences in The Cage occur up through the middle of the episode. The end has a small sequence of Pike choking an Talosian who's throwing an illusion and invisibly blasting a hole in a large sheet of plastic. The last half of the episode and the finale is all talking.

The main difference of Where No Man Has Gone Before, is that they have a LARGE climactic hand to had brawl between teh God-like Gary Mitchell and James Kirk; and further the other Demi-God (Elizabeth Dehner) uses her powers in the middle of that fight to give Kirk the opening he needs to prevail and defeat Mitchell -- BUT again, that fight ENDS the episode for the most part <--- And that's how the Network Suits felt any episode should be constructed...you always have the 'payoff confrontation' between protagonists at the end; and build up to it throughout the episode <--- and that's EXACTLY how Where No Man Has Gone Before, did it - and that's probably what finally sold the series to the Suits.

 

[fireproof78]

And I don't buy GR's claim that the reason was they felt it was too cerebral as it pretty much has the same amount

Even Nimoy disagrees with that assessment.

 

[Yistaan]

NBC executives mysteriously getting a copy of Strange New Worlds Episode 1 as the 2nd proposed TOS pilot: Don't know where you got these actors from and we want to meet your incredibly talented visual effects department, but it's still too talky and no action payoff. The end just has the captain talking up the aliens and telling them to stop fighting.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I actually see bigger similarities in command style between Pike and Sisko.
Sisko also established quite a bit of connection with his officers. He had a very friendly trust relationship with all of them, except maybe Odo and Worf and when duty allowed it invited them over for self cooked dinner.

 

[ichab]

Same. It's fine to be courteous, friendly, and warm to subordinates- but not 'buddy-buddy.' You're their boss, and familiarity breeds contempt. In the military, a politely phrased 'request' from a senior (in the line of duty) is actually an order, and fraternization is the easiest way to blur those lines and provoke back-talk.

In my military and work experience this is the model that I'm use to. Your boss isn't someone you "hang" with. Your courteous of course, but you don't go out for a beer after work. Having said that, Pike I believe is hanging out with fellow officers, not non-comisioned crewman. I wasn't an officer so I'm not sure of what the barriers were between say a lieutenant and a Major. I know there was an officers mess and club that only officers where allowed in so clearly they hung out with each other.

I've noticed this has become a problem in education as well. Back when I was in high school (stone age...er... the 80's) I didn't know the politics, voting habits, personal habits, or weekend plans of my teachers. They didn't talk about their personal lives, and if someone asked they were shut down politely but firmly. Even in the classes like civics and government. There was a wall there between teachers and students that, from what I observed when my kids were in high school, doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Agreed 1000 percent. I grew up in the same time frame and I couldn't tell you what side of the political aisle that any of my teachers were on nor who their spouses or children were. They taught their subjects, that was it and it seemed to work quite well.

 

[ichab]

I agree (and apparently so did the Network; which is one reason they rejected it. And I don't buy GR's claim that the reason was they felt it was too cerebral as it pretty much has the same amount (and honestly "Where No Man... actually has a little less action) of 'action to psychological discussion' ration as the second pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before, which ultimately sold the series.

The main difference is where/when the 'action' occurs. The majority of the action sequences in The Cage occur up through the middle of the episode. The end has a small sequence of Pike choking an Talosian who's throwing an illusion and invisibly blasting a hole in a large sheet of plastic. The last half of the episode and the finale is all talking.

The main difference of Where No Man Has Gone Before, is that they have a LARGE climactic hand to had brawl between teh God-like Gary Mitchell and James Kirk; and further the other Demi-God (Elizabeth Dehner) uses her powers in the middle of that fight to give Kirk the opening he needs to prevail and defeat Mitchell -- BUT again, that fight ENDS the episode for the most part <--- And that's how the Network Suits felt any episode should be constructed...you always have the 'payoff confrontation' between protagonists at the end; and build up to it throughout the episode <--- and that's EXACTLY how Where No Man Has Gone Before, did it - and that's probably what finally sold the series to the Suits.

Agree on all points. Where No Man Has Gone Before is a much better story hands down. The only mistake the network made was not airing that episode first.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think the Cage was Roddenberry and Desilu proving to the network they could pull off the show.

 

[fireproof78]

Agree on all points. Where No Man Has Gone Before is a much better story hands down. The only mistake the network made was not airing that episode first.

That wasn't the point of the episode though. Though it still works quite well.

 

[dupersuper]

Q&A says that Pike was the most heavily decorated fighting captain in Starfleet as of 2254. So far there are no major confirmed wars in the period Pike was in command from 2250-2254. Who exactly was he fighting that he got the reputation for being not just a fighting captain but the biggest one there is? Because his characterization doesn't come across that way at all in SNW.

Border run-ins with the Klingons, Talarians and Tholians? Chasing down some Orions, Nausicans or other pirates? We see him get in a few scrapes in the comics and novels.

 

[Saul]

At times Pike feels like Kirk 2.0. A likeable man, great commander with a strong sense of justice. Pike of TOS feels more conflicted of course, a period of his life where he is not himself and was definitely standoffish. Kirk too at times goes through moments of inner conflict, almost to the point of childishness, which Bones berates him for. SNW's Pike so far seems infallible. I'd say their command styles are fairly close so far though.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

At times Pike feels like Kirk 2.0. A likeable man, great commander with a strong sense of justice. Pike of TOS feels more conflicted of course, a period of his life where he is not himself and was definitely standoffish. Kirk too at times goes through moments of inner conflict, almost to the point of childishness, which Bones berates him for. SNW's Pike so far seems infallible. I'd say their command styles are fairly close so far though.

My thinking is that Pike was a little more gruff and abrasive, a little more hard-nosed during his first five-year mission (which includes the Talos IV visit). By the end of "The Cage", you start to see a little more humor and looseness in him (joking with Boyce, the little "cadet ship" quip with Number One).

I think his time after getting home during the Enterprise repairs and reflecting on what he saw as his future mellowed him a little.

 

[Mudd]

Kirk who?