Kirk and Carol Marcus's relationship in the movie era novels

[borgboy]

I recently read Shadows on the Sun. Carol doesn't appear in the book, but it's mentioned in passing that Kirk is planning to retire soon, and that he and Carol are lovers again and will be settling down together.
I don't hate that, but I found that really surprising and jarring to read. I don't recall there ever being any suggestion in any novels I have read about Kirk and Carol actually having a romantic relationship in this era. Was this following up from something else? Did the relationship get explored, or end, in other novels?
Of course, by Ashes of Eden Kirk is single again, but that's iffy as to it's place in continuity.
Not to get on another tangent, but can anybody point out where/why we are completely sure that the Shatnerverse novels aren't in continuity with the Litverse? Other than Kirk not appearing in the Litverse novels. I hated the way Kirk died, so I was glad to have him back alive in the Shatnerverse novels (and the excellent Crucible novels, sort of, but in a different way in yet a different continuity).

 

[Idran]

Just off the top of ny head, besides Kirk being around, the Mirror Universe is incompatible, the presentation of the Preservers is incompatible, the explanation of Miri's world is incompatible, V'Ger's backstory is incompatible, and the Borg stuff is questionably compatible.

 

[borgboy]

I knew there were issues, but I couldn't remember what they were. I don't get too worried over the MU since we've seen different versions of the MU such as Dark Mirror and Dark Passions.

 

[Idran]

Yeah, if it was the MU alone it wouldn't matter too much to me either, but the rest of it just seems too much clashing to mesh with the Litverse.

I suppose none of this rules out the 23rd century parts of the Shatnerverse; I don't remember those well enough to say either way. Though I think Forgotten History threw in a sidelong reference to Drake? Not to the events, but to the character. I may be remembering wrong, though.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Well, JM Dillard's novelization of The Undiscovered Country included Carol Marcus having been injured in an attack while on a research expedition of some kind by Chang's bird of prey (I think this was to justify Kirk's extreme hatred of Klingons after almost ten years since David's death), and I think it included a scene of Carol during her recovery, speaking to Kirk, so Shadows on the Sun might have been using that as a foundation.

 

[ATimson]

I suppose none of this rules out the 23rd century parts of the Shatnerverse; I don't remember those well enough to say either way. Though I think Forgotten History threw in a sidelong reference to Drake? Not to the events, but to the character. I may be remembering wrong, though.

The Ashes of Eden is compatible with the litverse, as far as I can remember. It's just the post-Generations books that diverge.

 

[Christopher]

Not to get on another tangent, but can anybody point out where/why we are completely sure that the Shatnerverse novels aren't in continuity with the Litverse? Other than Kirk not appearing in the Litverse novels.

In addition to the discrepancies cited above, the third trilogy conflicts significantly with the post-Nemesis continuity: Bajor hasn't joined the Federation yet, Titan spends nearly a year longer at Romulus before beginning to explore (although the Shatnerverse does borrow the characters from the TTN novels), Janeway is neither dead nor in the Full Circle fleet, etc.

Though I think Forgotten History threw in a sidelong reference to Drake? Not to the events, but to the character. I may be remembering wrong, though.

I'm pretty certain I didn't. I think I've heard that suggested once before, and I think it was a misinterpretation of something in the book, but I forget what.

 

[Idran]

Though I think Forgotten History threw in a sidelong reference to Drake? Not to the events, but to the character. I may be remembering wrong, though.

I'm pretty certain I didn't. I think I've heard that suggested once before, and I think it was a misinterpretation of something in the book, but I forget what.

That might be what I was remembering, then.

 

[tomswift2002]

I remember there being a mention from Kirk in the Generations novelization, about him and Carol getting together just after the Enterprise-A has docked. It's been a few years since I read Generations, but I recall that J.M. Dillard started the book with the docking and decommissioning of the A before Kirk went on his space diving escapade.

 

[Leto_II]

I suppose none of this rules out the 23rd century parts of the Shatnerverse; I don't remember those well enough to say either way. Though I think Forgotten History threw in a sidelong reference to Drake? Not to the events, but to the character. I may be remembering wrong, though.

James Swallow's Cast No Shadow makes direct reference to Androvar Drake and the final battle at Chal (and the Enterprise-A's destruction there) during that novel's main storyline. On the whole, I'd say most of the 23rd century material from The Ashes of Eden works pretty well in terms of compatibility with the greater Litverse; it's the 24th century stuff from later Shatnerverse novels that gets sort of problematic.

 

[Paris]

James Swallow's Cast No Shadow makes direct reference to Androvar Drake and the final battle at Chal (and the Enterprise-A's destruction there) during that novel's main storyline.

Cool! I hadn't realized when I first read it. I don't remember that at all. There's no mention of it on MB...can you provide a page # for when he is mentioned?

 

[Leto_II]

Gotcha covered -- it's about midway down on p. 73:

"That's all there is." Vaughn frowned. "This is a song we've heard before, sir. All intelligence reports we have -- or, rather, had -- were purged from the system by the same hunter-killer virus program that destroyed the data connected to the Gorkon conspiracy. We know Lance Cartwright wasn't alone in what he did. After his arrest, a kill-switch was triggered in attempt to obliterate anything that could incriminate him."

"It could have been one of his coconspirators that pushed the button," Miller agreed. "God knows, Drake had the means and the opportunity after the fact." Admiral Androvar Drake, a man who had briefly ascended to a role as Chief of Staff at Starfleet following the Gorkon assassination, had later been revealed to be a silent partner in Cartwright's cabal of pro-conflict agitators. Drake's duplicity was exposed, but at the cost of his own life and the loss of the Enterprise-A over the planet Chal.

 

[The Wormhole]

can anybody point out where/why we are completely sure that the Shatnerverse novels aren't in continuity with the Litverse?

I thought either Shatner or the Reeves-Stevens said they wanted the Shatnerverse novels separate from the main novel continuity so that they could do their own thing in the 24th century without having to keep up with the novels being consistent with them. Also there's the practical consideration that a book with Shatner's name on the cover is more likely to attract casual readers who aren't up on the Typhon Pact or President Bacco or whatever.

 

[Relayer1]

I think it's certain that the 'Shatnerverse' is in another continuity. I know I'm probably in a minority here, but despite Trek's rather ridiculous level of ressurection, I'd still love to see Kirk brought back into the mainstream novel continuity. Generations was just dire.

There's got to be a Trek author out there who has an origional, inventive and reasonable way of bringing him back...

 

[Paris]

Gotcha covered -- it's about midway down on p. 73:

"That's all there is." Vaughn frowned. "This is a song we've heard before, sir. All intelligence reports we have -- or, rather, had -- were purged from the system by the same hunter-killer virus program that destroyed the data connected to the Gorkon conspiracy. We know Lance Cartwright wasn't alone in what he did. After his arrest, a kill-switch was triggered in attempt to obliterate anything that could incriminate him."

"It could have been one of his coconspirators that pushed the button," Miller agreed. "God knows, Drake had the means and the opportunity after the fact." Admiral Androvar Drake, a man who had briefly ascended to a role as Chief of Staff at Starfleet following the Gorkon assassination, had later been revealed to be a silent partner in Cartwright's cabal of pro-conflict agitators. Drake's duplicity was exposed, but at the cost of his own life and the loss of the Enterprise-A over the planet Chal.

Perfect. Thanks

 

[Christopher]

There's got to be a Trek author out there who has an origional, inventive and reasonable way of bringing him back...

At this point, it would be more original and inventive to let a character stay dead. I mean, it hardly ever happens anymore...

 

[Relayer1]

There's got to be a Trek author out there who has an origional, inventive and reasonable way of bringing him back...

At this point, it would be more original and inventive to let a character stay dead. I mean, it hardly ever happens anymore...

I really can't argue with that !

 

[JD]

I've always been disapointed more wasn't done with Carol Marcus, either in the books or on screen. I was thrilled when she popped up in Vanguard.

 

[Dales]

in the tos novels, mostly shatnerverse, kirk marries another woman and they have kids.


however you can check out kirk and carol in the alternate timeline.

it looks promising.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=26003&pg=5

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=26003

its too bad there are no novels on the alternate timeline.

 

[Kilana2]

I've always been disapointed more wasn't done with Carol Marcus, either in the books or on screen. I was thrilled when she popped up in Vanguard.

And she popped up in the Genesis Wave novels.