Kirk’s Comment in Elaan of Troyius

[Kor]

I totally agree with this, and it was one of the reasons (among many) I loved Rogue One so much. ...

While Rogue One used practical sets, there wasn't any miniature photography for the spaceship stuff. That was all CGI, but approached from a point of view of duplicating the way the physical models were built in the old days. Source on that: https://ascmag.com/articles/john-knoll-on-rogue-ones-visual-effects-part-2

Kor

 

[BK613]

We long ago reached the prosumer level of entry for CGI and like most human endeavors, a lot of people just aren't very good at it. Those people that are good at it, either you don't notice their work because it is that well done, or you do notice, but only because you can't believe it is CGI. IOW, CGI is a tool and the results depends on the craftsman using the tool.

 

[MAGolding]

I think it's when multiple ships are on the same two-dimensional plane, as if they're floating on a lake.

Kor

The "no space lake" image was only slightly more three dimensional than the "space lake" image.

And also everyone should realize that it takes a minimum of four ships (if arranged at the points of a tetrahedron) to surround a ship in three dimensional space. Adding a fourth Romulan ship and putting all four on the points of an imaginary tetrahedron with the Enterprise in the center was the absolute minimum necessary to have the Enterprise realistically surrounded in The Enterprise Incident.

 

[BK613]

The "no space lake" image was only slightly more three dimensional than the "space lake" image.

Don't miss the point of my initial post; TOS-R gave us something worse.

And also everyone should realize that it takes a minimum of four ships (if arranged at the points of a tetrahedron) to surround a ship in three dimensional space. Adding a fourth Romulan ship and putting all four on the points of an imaginary tetrahedron with the Enterprise in the center was the absolute minimum necessary to have the Enterprise realistically surrounded in The Enterprise Incident.

Depends on the firing arcs of the weapons. Those nacelle-mounted disruptors cover a large swathe of the Enterprise's possible escape routes. Of course, TEI is such a mess of an episode that when the Enterprise does run, the plot forgets the other two ships.

 

[Phaser Two]

While Rogue One used practical sets, there wasn't any miniature photography for the spaceship stuff. That was all CGI, but approached from a point of view of duplicating the way the physical models were built in the old days. Source on that: https://ascmag.com/articles/john-knoll-on-rogue-ones-visual-effects-part-2

Kor

Right! I remember reading that very article; thanks. They did heck of a job!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

While Rogue One used practical sets, there wasn't any miniature photography for the spaceship stuff. That was all CGI, but approached from a point of view of duplicating the way the physical models were built in the old days. Source on that: https://ascmag.com/articles/john-knoll-on-rogue-ones-visual-effects-part-2

If you want to see physical miniatures in a modern space movie, don't miss Interstellar (2014). Even if you don't go nuts for the story, the spacecraft fx are more than worth your time.

 

[MAGolding]

Don't miss the point of my initial post; TOS-R gave us something worse.
Depends on the firing arcs of the weapons. Those nacelle-mounted disruptors cover a large swathe of the Enterprise's possible escape routes. Of course, TEI is such a mess of an episode that when the Enterprise does run, the plot forgets the other two ships.

Or maybe the other two Romulan ships followed the flagship at a sufficient distance for them to be be outside of all the shots showing the Romulan flagship chasing the Enterprise. That is plausible enough for the producers to justify saving money by having only one Romulan ship shown in the chase.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
That makes perfect sense. TOS Remastered was, after all, created on a limited budget from CBS. And it probably seemed way more important and much cooler to show a D7 battle cruiser flying after them and firing torpedoes.

 

[Henoch]

^
That makes perfect sense. TOS Remastered was, after all, created on a limited budget from CBS. And it probably seemed way more important and much cooler to show a D7 battle cruiser flying after them and firing torpedoes.

Firing torpedoes? Did I blink and miss that? Away way, it was a shame that the TOS-R Romulan D7's lost their greenish/tealish lighting hue from the original FX.

 

[cooleddie74]

When the Enterprise is fleeing there's a shot of the Romulan D7 silently firing two or three torpedoes as it heads off in the wrong direction attempting to pursue the Enterprise.

 

[Henoch]

Yep, two small torpedoes and two disruptor salvos around 1:15 in the TOS-R version:

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[Marsden]

Yep, two small torpedoes and two disruptor salvos around 1:15 in the TOS-R version:

Thanks @Henoch your clip reminded me of one of the things I HATE from the Remaster, when they look back and nacelles are in the view! That's so stupid! We are not looking out a window where the impulse engines are!

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[johnnybear]

The other two Romulan ships must have veered off after the Commander told them that Spock was about to betray his former colleagues!
JB

 

[Mytran]

Thanks @Henoch your clip reminded me of one of the things I HATE from the Remaster, when they look back and nacelles are in the view! That's so stupid! We are not looking out a window where the impulse engines are!

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That's something they started doing during Enterprise. It sort of made sense in that series (since they could have been using actual cameras on the hull) but has no business in TOS and really stands out as "modern Trek" mindset.
That and how close the ships are to each other, something TOS never had a problem with before

 

[ZapBrannigan]

That's something they started doing during Enterprise. It sort of made sense in that series (since they could have been using actual cameras on the hull) but has no business in TOS and really stands out as "modern Trek" mindset.

I don't see what's so wrong about an aft camera seeing the nacelles.

That and how close the ships are to each other, something TOS never had a problem with before

Both versions of "The Corbomite Maneuver" put the cube way too close to the Enterprise, and make it look too small for its stated 107-meter edges:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x10/corbomitemanuever026.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x10hd/thecorbomitemaneuverhd044.jpg

 

[Mytran]

I don't see what's so wrong about an aft camera seeing the nacelles.

Nothing, if it is in fact a camera (which is why it works fine with ENT, Archer even references a dorsal camera in The Crossing). Did TOS really use physical cameras though? There's nothing in the dialogue to support that, and plenty of references to "sensors" and "sensor beams" which suggest that what's on the viewscreen is a computer generated image drawn from the sensor data.
The TOS-R "reverse camera" image in TEI and EOT also portrays the pursing vessel as being visible with the naked eye - that is just way too close for them to NOT open fire!

Both versions of "The Corbomite Maneuver" put the cube way too close to the Enterprise, and make it look too small for its stated 107-meter edges:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x10/corbomitemanuever026.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x10hd/thecorbomitemaneuverhd044.jpg

I'm not sure the cube qualifies as a "ship" but your point is well made - I should not have been so sweeping in my statement. When it came to ship based combat and pursuit though, TOS tended not to portray both vessels on the same screen, which gave the impression of more considerable distance between them.

 

[GNDN18]

Did TOS really use physical cameras though?

Sure. Had a dark room and everything.

 

[BK613]

Or maybe the other two Romulan ships followed the flagship at a sufficient distance for them to be be outside of all the shots showing the Romulan flagship chasing the Enterprise. That is plausible enough for the producers to justify saving money by having only one Romulan ship shown in the chase.

Must have been way way way way outside and/or behind that last shot of the Rom flagship flying off (original FX). And, of course, the other two should have been ahead in the pursuit since the flagship most likely would have had to come about to join the chase.

I don't see what's so wrong about an aft camera seeing the nacelles.

Why wouldn't the "camera" be mounted where it would give an unobstructed view, like say, the aft end of the secondary hull? I've long thought that the little dome above the hangar doors was a sensor platform for that very purpose.

Both versions of "The Corbomite Maneuver" put the cube way too close to the Enterprise, and make it look too small for its stated 107-meter edges:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x10/corbomitemanuever026.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x10hd/thecorbomitemaneuverhd044.jpg

And it is too close for:
BAILEY: Distance from us, fifteen hundred ninety three meters, position constant.

@Mytran is correct in that TOS portrayed battles happening in the thousands of kilometers range. Hell, the opening salvos of the Battle of Jutland occurred at about 14 kilometers (8.6 miles.)
edit: miss-attribute corrected

 

[trynda1701]

The visuals in TNG suffered a similar problem to the view and distance of the First Federation cube and the Enterprise.

I think it was in "Redemption" with the 1701-D facing a Vor'cha and two Klingon Birds of Prey. They are shown in the one shot, maybe a ship length for so apart nose to nose, but I thInk Worf or Data states they are holding station at eight kilometers.

 

[BK613]

Sure. Had a dark room and everything.
View attachment 10201

We still say "Dial 911" yet most phones haven't had a dial mechanism in decades.