Kira, Worf: Controversial or not.
- Thread starter Whizkid
- Start date
Worf had better development in 4 years on DS9 than in 7 on TNG.
Other than both are religious and neither will walk away from a fight, I think the similarities end there. I think they're on opposite paths more than anything else.
Worf grew up wanting to be a Klingon Warrior and was away from Klingon Warriors for most of his life. When he finally fought alongside them in "Redemption", he discovered how different he was from them. He feels more at home in Starfleet.
Kira grew up being part of the Resistance and actually was fighting for Bajor's freedom. She didn't have to want to be a "Bajoran Warrior". She actually was one. Despite working with Starfleet, she'd never feel at home in Starfleet.
At the end of the day, Kira ends up in command of Deep Space Nine. As of "Change of Heart", it was made clear that Worf would never have a command of his own. Whether or not that ever ended up changing (on screen, not in the novels) remains to be seen. Maybe one of the new 24th/25th Century Star Trek shows will clear that up, maybe not.
Worf grew up wanting to be a Klingon Warrior and was away from Klingon Warriors for most of his life. When he finally fought alongside them in "Redemption", he discovered how different he was from them. He feels more at home in Starfleet.
Kira grew up being part of the Resistance and actually was fighting for Bajor's freedom. She didn't have to want to be a "Bajoran Warrior". She actually was one. Despite working with Starfleet, she'd never feel at home in Starfleet.
At the end of the day, Kira ends up in command of Deep Space Nine. As of "Change of Heart", it was made clear that Worf would never have a command of his own. Whether or not that ever ended up changing (on screen, not in the novels) remains to be seen. Maybe one of the new 24th/25th Century Star Trek shows will clear that up, maybe not.
Sir, If I may, (I don't mean to hurt any sentiments),
1. Worf never wanted to be a "Klingon warrior." He wanted to be accepted by the Hoo-maans (in Ferengi language), who had adopted him.. Yes, he wore the sashe and pretended as such and even treated his kid as such. But remember that he sent Alexander away to his own adoptive parents.
2. As for the redoubtable Major Kira Nerys (my favorite ST character btw, perhaps even more than Spock! Spock!) Spock!: Kira, as you note, like Worf, wanted precisely to rid her memory of her violent past.
Both Worf and Kira, are intrinsically gentle people. Ergo, the comparison.
Sir, If I may, (I don't mean to hurt any sentiments),
1. Worf never wanted to be a "Klingon warrior." He wanted to be accepted by the Hoo-maans (in Ferengi language), who had adopted him.. Yes, he wore the sashe and pretended as such and even treated his kid as such. But remember that he sent Alexander away to his own adoptive parents.
2. As for the redoubtable Major Kira Nerys (my favorite ST character btw, perhaps even more than Spock! Spock!)
He wanted to be Klingon but he also wanted to honor his foster-parents and the Starfleet that saved him by joining Starfleet. He probably felt that because they saved his life, he owed them. Then, later on, like he said in "The Way of the Warrior", he felt he owed it to himself. Worf was conflicted. That's what drives his character arc throughout TNG and DS9.
He sent Alexander to live with his foster parents because when he did, it was the fourth season of TNG. The season where he had Discommendation from the Klingon Empire. There was no one he could send Alexander to, except Kurn, who had to pretend he didn't know Worf. Under the circumstances, there was no one else he could trust Alexander with in the Empire. He'd have to worry about what would happen to Alexander, especially being so young. By sending Alexander to his foster parents, he didn't have to worry about that.
To drive this back to comparison: Kira isn't permanently conflicted, and whenever she is conflicted, her default is: do what's right for Bajor. She's upset in the first season about becoming a mouthpiece for Starfleet and the Bajoran Provisional Government, but what she really cares about is keeping the Cardassians from coming back. At the beginning of the sixth season, the Cardassians are back. For a few months, she swallows her pride and works with the Cardassians and Dominion to keep Bajor safe, as per the Non-Aggression Pact that Bajor signed. After a certain point though, she can't take it any more and does whatever she can to wrest control of Deep Space Nine from them and help get the Dominion driven off Bajor.
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Thank you @Lord Garth
Given your deep understanding of both Kira and Worf, perhaps you understand why I made this mistake.
If it was a mistake.
Given your deep understanding of both Kira and Worf, perhaps you understand why I made this mistake.
If it was a mistake.
Very true. But also to serve what she sees as the will of the Prophets. Most of the crew are skeptical. Sisko goes from skeptical to devout as part of his character journey. But Kira was a true believer from the beginning.
No. Jadzia begged them.
Begged? Or reminded?
I disagree there. In TNG he was learning to actually be a decent father and when he joined DS9 they threw it away because having Alexander on would be inconvenient to the story. In season 4 he acted like a petty child and he didn't really develop much from there. All his arcs are just lashing out at someone who makes him uncomfortable then feeling kinda bad about it. The only time he actually developed forward in DS9 is when Ezri called him on his and Jadzia's mythologization of Klingon history and that was in the 4th to last episode. In TNG you saw more forward movement learning to balance his Klingon heritage with his Federation duty and pick the best of the values he has from both.
Of course he had conflict on DS9... he went from the Starfleet Hilton to being an outcast on a station.
I would argue that he had an easier time on TNG because he could straddle the line between the Federation and the Empire.
On DS9, he made the choice, and had to live with it. No turning back. If not for becoming a member of Martok's house, he would have been an outcast of the Klingons forever.
I would argue that he had an easier time on TNG because he could straddle the line between the Federation and the Empire.
On DS9, he made the choice, and had to live with it. No turning back. If not for becoming a member of Martok's house, he would have been an outcast of the Klingons forever.
@Farscape One
I'm wondering if it has also to do with the sort of leaders he (Worf) had. Picard vs. Sisko. One egalitarian (united nations), the other militant (because he had to be).
I'm wondering if it has also to do with the sort of leaders he (Worf) had. Picard vs. Sisko. One egalitarian (united nations), the other militant (because he had to be).
Interesting thought. Worf said to Dax that Sisko actually intimidates him, which is no small feat. That might be a factor.
Another key thing is on TNG, he was Security Chief. A department head, but not a command track one. On DS9, he was fully on the command track... he was XO of the Defiant, and commanded her on several occasions before the war.
Command holds a very different responsibility set and mindset than being a Security Chief. We see him be challenged on this many times. He never really got that on the Enterprise.
Another key thing is on TNG, he was Security Chief. A department head, but not a command track one. On DS9, he was fully on the command track... he was XO of the Defiant, and commanded her on several occasions before the war.
Command holds a very different responsibility set and mindset than being a Security Chief. We see him be challenged on this many times. He never really got that on the Enterprise.
My reading of this is that it was because he respects Sisko, as he respected Picard. He is clearly never intimidated by Gowron, or Duras or any of the other Klingons or enemies he faces.
But he is terrified of screwing up and letting down his captains.
The only other person he's intimidated by, on a completely different level, is probably Alexander. And that's because he's totally clueless and out of his depth as a father.
Picard himself was the curse, because Worf and Deanna broke up in the real universe after he told them about the future, and in the future the curse killed Deanna, and in one of the alternate universes from "Parallels" Picard was dead so the curse was lifted. Picard didn't get an invite to the Worf/Dax wedding so that probably set the curse right off.