Kira was smarter than people realize

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Sisko_is_my_captain, Nov 6, 2022.

  1. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    Maybe they'll come up with some kind of neural interface that directly transfers all the knowledge into the student's brain. Trek has generally shied away from that kind of thing, though, at least when it comes to humanity.

    Kor
     
  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Teaching was probably perfected with the use of holograms etc.
    There were things in high school I didn't fully understand because the teachers didn't explain them well. Then in the first year at uni that covered 3-4 years of high school it suddenly all made much more sense :D
     
    Jedman67, Kor and kkt like this.
  3. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    Reminds me my own experience with high school math. I ended up having to do a remedial math course at the start of college to catch up, and it was like everything that I had struggled with in the previous couple of years instantly fell into place.

    Kor
     
    NCC-73515 and kkt like this.
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Going back to the original topic, I suspect that if she hadn't been too bright, she wouldn't have survived all those years as a freedom fighter. After all, avoiding getting caught when you commit 'terrorist' acts against the 'legitimate Cardassian occupiers' probably requires some brains every now and then.
     
    Shamrock Holmes likes this.
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    And given that she was commissioned as a major, which is a pretty high officer rank, suggests operational experience, leadership skills, competence, and considerable intelligence.
     
  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    I don't think Kira's intelligence was ever in question.

    Also, I think it's worth bearing in mind that the Cardassians may have had need of educated Bajorans and therefore have kept the Bajoran education system functioning. There were universities and institutions of higher education in India during the British occupation, for instance. For all we know, it's possible that Kira was intermittently able to attend postsecondary classes under false names during her time in the Resistance.
     
    trekshark likes this.
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I just watched "When it Rains...", and Kira was obviously a highly knowledgeable ex-guerilla, an ideal military advisor.
     
    trekshark, kkt and Farscape One like this.
  8. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    All true, and I agree with you.

    But in the pilot, we see her arguing with an official in the very first scene we encounter her. Hotly, too. She slowly over time tempered that streak, but it was certainly there.

    DS9 was originally just a backwater installation, and Kira might have been assigned there because she was not diplomatic. Once the wormhole was found, it obviously became a major base.

    The Bajorans could have reassigned her, but I think her actions in getting DS9 over to that spot and perhaps some talking by Sisko kept her there. Sisko likely saw great potential in her, which was proven right.


    I guess my point is while she had the skill and leadership for those under her command, it was the ones above her that she was lacking. A trait I can fully appreciate.

    (While I was an ATL, I was better with my team members than I expected to be, but dealing with store leadership and higher ups was not just a chore, but far more difficult than I expected. The amount of red tape and overthinking simple things was so staggering I couldn't get real work done. My frustration certainly showed. I stepped down because of my wife's dad and his health situation needed me to have stable hours, which was impossible in leadership. Honestly, I was glad I did it anyway. Not only was I happier, but I was able to put that time down on my resume and I'm certain it helped me get the job I have now.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
    Trekker09 likes this.
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I think you're right. She made it very clear that she was not a fan of the provisional government, and it's unlikely they liked her much either. And, while she was a proven warrior, they weren't sure what to do with her now that peace had broken out.
     
  10. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Location:
    Seattle
    Kira was very clear that she was not a fan of Starfleet being there either. I see the Provisional Government reaching a compromise - the pro-Starfleet faction get Starfleet managing DS9. But the anti-Starfleet faction get Kira as the liason officer, watching Sisko and Starfleet like a hawk for any signs that they're going to be the new occupation.
     
    trekshark and Shamrock Holmes like this.
  11. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    To whom? To the Federation, Deep Space 9 may have been a backwater installation. But to the Bajorans, Deep Space 9 would have been the most important installation in their star system from the very start. Most of their fleet were tactically inferior to the Cardassian fleet; Deep Space 9 as a joint Federation Starfleet/Bajoran Militia starbase would have been their key planetary defense installation from Day One.

    That seems probable, yeah. I think the thing to remember about the Bajoran government in the immediate aftermath of the Occupation is that it probably wasn't just one thing -- it was comprised of multiple factions, and Kira was probably part of a faction that had significant influence but did not actually control the office of First Minister.
     
    trekshark, kkt and Shamrock Holmes like this.
  12. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Following up on the question of Bajoran education under the Occupation...

    There are a lot of points along a continuum that an occupying power can implement when it comes to the education system for its victims. Broadly speaking, I think two really stark examples would be Ireland and Congo; there was a functioning system of higher education in Ireland all throughout the English/British occupation, but when Congo gained independence from Belgium there were only a handful of people with graduate degrees in the country. But. We know from the example of Dr. Mora that there were indeed Bajoran doctors, scientists, biologists, and researchers during the Cardassian Occupation of Bajor -- which strongly implies something closer to the Irish example than to the Congolese example. Add to this the fact that Bajor was almost immediately engaging in technologically sophisticated engineering programs ("Progress") after independence, and I strongly suspect that there was a functional, advanced system of tertiary education on Bajor during the Occupation.
     
    trekshark, kkt and Shamrock Holmes like this.
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Up to a point.

    It's reasonable to assume that access to said institutions were limited to those that "expressed the appropriate reverence for the Central Command". To be far, it's strongly implied that they mostly follow this policy when it comes to other Cardassians as well...
     
    kkt likes this.
  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Quite possibly! But there is, of course, a long history of tyrannical governments and occupying powers operating tertiary education systems in their victims' territories with varying degrees of ideological control exerted over the student body. And of course, students always have the option of lying about their political opinions in order to gain admission but then acting to subvert governmental or occupying authority once they're in.
     
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    It may have been an important defense post to Bajor, but it was basically out of the way of most direct and indirect interactions with officials on Bajor. Kira pretty much said so in the pilot.

    In any case, diplomacy was not really needed for that post at the time, and Kira at that point in time was probably the most undiplomatic officer in the franchise.
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    The exact exchange is:

    SISKO: Is something bothering you, Major?
    KIRA: You don't want to ask me that, Commander.
    SISKO: Why not?
    KIRA: Because I have the bad habit of telling the truth even when people don't want to hear it.
    SISKO: Perhaps I want to hear it.
    KIRA: I don't believe the Federation has any business being here.
    SISKO: The provisional government disagrees with you.
    KIRA: The provisional government and I don't agree on a lot of things which is probably why they've sent me to this god-forsaken place. I have been fighting for Bajoran independence since I was old enough to pick up a phaser. We finally drive the Cardassians out and what do our new leaders do? They call up the Federation and invite them right in.

    Kira may well think she's been assigned to DS9 to get her out of the provisional government's hair, but I think that's a short-sighted way of looking at things. Deep Space 9 was always going to be the most important outpost in the Bajoran star system from the Bajoran Republic's point of view, and putting a staunch Bajoran nationalist as second-in-command is a really good way of protecting Bajor's interests -- and making sure that Federation assistance doesn't turn into Federation domination.
     
    Shamrock Holmes and Farscape One like this.
  17. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    To be fair, Kira is from an advanced space civilization and has been on Terok Nor for a good number of occasions as part of her work for the resistance. This isn't someone from the Middle Ages learning 20th century technology, this is a girl from say, Ukraine working with a NATO military base.

    The tech was always there, it just got bombed a lot.
     
    Sci likes this.
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    And undoubtedly Kira was educated on how everything on Terok Nor worked, so that she would know how to sabotage it.
     
  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    That's a fair argument, and it certainly has merit. Might also explain why they never recalled her once they found the wormhole.
     
    Charles Phipps, Sci and Oddish like this.
  20. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Location:
    Seattle
    Educated Bajoran engineers would be useful for Cardassia. Just make sure they aren't teaching any political science or postcolonial theory and definitely no military history or tactics or weapons design, keep a close eye on the students, and everything will be fine...