Khitomer - what, who, and why?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by RoJoHen, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    Let's talk about Khitomer. The name pops up in Trek all the time, and I want to know more. Things I know:

    In TUC, there were Peace Talks between the Federation and the Klingons at Camp Khitomer. The Romulans also played a role.

    In TNG, we learn about the Khitomer Massacre. There was a Klingon colony on Khitomer that was attacked by Romulans.

    After that, we hear many references to the "Khitomer Accord." Now, I assumed this was the peace treaty that was drawn up in TUC, but I feel like there have been some inconsistencies there. For instance, in INSURRECTION, the Son'a use subspace weapons that were apparently banned by the Khitomer Accord...but why would that be relevant? The Son'a certainly weren't at Camp Khitomer to sign that treaty.

    Also, in DS9 "The Way of the Warrior," Dr. Bashir says something about "two decades of peace" coming to an end between the Klingons and the Federation. Two decades? Surely the events of TUC were a lot longer than twenty years earlier?

    I guess what I'm getting at it this. I have the impression that there many have been two different Khitomer treaties. There was the original one in TUC, and then there was another one (or maybe just an updated version?) in the 24th Century that involves many other races.

    So what do you think? Are there more details from the shows that I'm just not remembering, or has Khitomer always been rather vague? I want to know more about it!
     
  2. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    It's possible that they went back there several times since first meeting was successful. As for Son'a, they didn't necessarily have to be present, they just needed to sign at some point after the initial treaty.
     
  3. NickInABox

    NickInABox Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Location:
    The not-so-Great-anymore White North
    This explains that there were two Khitomer Accords.
     
  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    IMO, the Khitomer Conference in Star Trek VI amounted to a "time out" between the Klingons and the Federation so the Klingons could rebuild their economy following the Praxis disaster.

    I think the Khitomer Accords--an actual peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingons--came about following the loss of the Enterprise-C while defending Narendra III. Khitomer may have been the place where the Accords were signed, thus the name.

    The Khitomer Massacre may have been the Romulans' payback for the Klingons siding with the Federation or it may have been a case of the Romulans terminating their alliance with the Klingons in a very clear and decisive way.
     
  5. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    I like this. It makes sense.

    So what about the planet itself? Who does it belong to? I know it's meant to be a neutral planet, but I know there are also theories that it was a Romulan world. Why was there a Klingon colony there at all? Who else was living on the planet besides the Klingons?
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    I think Khitomer started off as a neutral world, was colonized by the Klingons, and then invaded & conquered by the Romulans.
     
  7. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    Okay, so it was a neutral world, but it had to belong to somebody. Where did the Power Rangers building come from where they held the conference in TUC?
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    Not necessarily. As a neutral world, it could have been located in neutral space--territory officially belonging to nobody. We don't know what state (inhabited or abandoned) Khitomer was in during Star Trek VI.
    A couple of possibilities:

    - Restored abandoned ruin. We've seen a few worlds--Iconia comes to mind right now--that were long abandoned by the original indigenous population with some buildings still intact.

    - Another possibility is that there was an existing non-aligned population on Khitomer--the Khitomerans, Khitomeri, whatever--that allowed their world to serve as the location for the original peace conference. They may currently be members of the Romulan Empire right now for all we know.
     
  9. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    Well, that's why I'm asking. I like to speculate this kind of stuff. When I say "it had to belong to somebody," I wasn't necessarily referring to any of the major races. It could have very well belonged to some ancient race that had disappeared a long time ago. I guess I just wonder, for a planet that keeps popping up in Trek history, why don't we know more about it?
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    Khitomer by itself is probably an unremarkable planet, an ordinary Class-M world. Three things make Khitomer noteworthy--it was the location of a peace conference; a series of accords were named after it; and it was the location of a devastating Romulan attack where thousands of Klingons died (including Worf's parents).

    What really keeps Khitomer relevant, IMO, is the Accords that dramatically shifted the balance of power between the Federation, the Klingons, and presumably the Romulans.
     
  11. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    Sure, it might be an unremarkable planet, but really, all it would take is one author to change that. :p
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Actually, Bashir's words in that episode appear to refer to two decades of peace between Klingons and Cardassians. There is no indication in that scene that peace with the Feds would be broken yet, after all.

    At first, the summit with Gorkon was going to be held on Earth, the capital of the Federation and the homeworld of humankind. Just about anything would be more "neutral" than that, including various off-Earth human colonies.

    At Khitomer, we see a big building decorated on the outside with the symbols of the UFP and the Romulan Star Empire - no Klingon symbols visible on the building at all! Also, while the interiors feature symbols for all the involved parties, it's the UFP ones that decorate all the desks, pulpits, podia and whatnot. We might well assume that the UFP is the organizer, the one responsible for everything from translation services to catering, because the UFP was going to host the original summit, too. But the planet and the big building might well be Romulan, as indicated by the Bird of Prey banner above the main entrance.

    On the other hand, the hall also features a major group of human-looking people wearing green sashes and gathering under an aurora-decorated green flag. What possible business could these people have in this meeting alongside the blue Feds, the red Klingons and the yellow Romulans (plus Vulcans?)? Perhaps they are the actual hosts - a bunch of humans or humanlike aliens much like the Halkans of "Mirror, Mirror" fame, famous for their absolute neutrality and unrelated to the UFP.

    Theoretically, that one could have been erected overnight with 23rd century technology. It may be a standard prefab design, as the building also appears in other episodes such as "Descent" (perhaps the Borg built it out of assimilated Federation blueprints there?).

    In practice, though, the careful landscaping of the building (not just the lawn and the nice shrubbery but also the rolling hills with their respective lawns and trees) would probably take years... So it's likely to have been a preexisting structure. Which leaves two basic possibilities: it's a random building used by the inhabitants of Khitomer, appropriated for summit use, or it's a building created specifically for summit use and meetings like this are the most important source of income for planet Khitomer, an interstellar conference venue of renowned neutrality.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    everywhere
    i tend to think Camp Khitomer was a codename for another location.

    Khitomer itself is a Klingon colony.

    the Khitomer Accords are probably a series of treaties which over the years took the Fed and Klingons from a cease-fire to a full on peace treaty to a mutual trade agreement to a military alliance and a technology exchange.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Hmm... If Camp Khitomer was but a codename, Kirk would sure feel silly flying all the way to the real Khitomer, only to meet a bunch of angry Klingon farmers there and no peace conference!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Location:
    Here, there and everywhere
    Really? Are you suggesting Kirk would not be capable of handling such a situation, even if that proved to be true? :cardie:

    It seems to me you underestimate Kirk's abilities and skills! He and his crew have handled far worse! If there were any difficulties, they would soon beam him out.

    Besides, wouldn't the risks be outweighed by the potential benefits if the peace conference did turn out to be real?

    Surely more trouble would be caused by the gossips and the people interfering with their paranoia and conspiracy theories, promoting imagined threats (such as you suggest)? :rofl:


    Chuckling :lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I'm evidently not getting the joke here... :(

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. xortex

    xortex Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Who coined the name? Was it Trek VI? that was taken up by TNG or the other way around?
     
  18. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
    I think the first reference to Khitomer was in TNG's "Sins of the Father," which aired in 1990, IIRC. Star Trek VI came out the following year.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Essentially, it was the same thing as Delta Vega in STXI. A name some of the fans might recognize was inserted into the story, without needlessly dragging along the context of that name...

    It works out rather fine IMHO. A maximally neutral location of the late 23rd century becomes a political hotbed of seeming military importance in the early 24th - sort of reverse Switzerland there.

    Timo Saloniemi