Nowhere Man
Commodore
It would be cool to see a JJ. version of the Botany Bay and Khan is a great villian, but I would rather see something new. I voted No.
Khan or no Khan?
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
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Nowhere Man
Commodore
Garth would be way better than Khan.
The details of why he went crazy, what crimes he committed, who stopped him and how could make for a very good story.
I imagine he has contact with some unknown which gives him the ability to shape-shift, contact with the Outer Barrier perhaps... Something. In addition to shape-shifting another side effect become apparent; he's now mad with power and will kill everyone if not stopped. No easy task, him being a shape-shifter and all.
Our Hero's mission becomes one of capturing him, and Starfleet cannot stress it enough: alive!
Kirk succeeds and thereby learns the importance of mercy.
I agree, I've been thinking Garth should be the villian since the credits rolled when I saw XI for the first time. Garth could start out sane, then go ape shit crazy and start killing. He's the joker of Star Trek. Maybe theres some issues with "New Vulcan." Maybe some in Starfleet want to use Garth and his shape shifting as a weapon and Kirk finds out about it. He's stuck with a catch 22 moment.
I'm wondering, which TOS episode did Nero come from?
Who brought up the idea that nuTrek movies can only re-use stuff that came before in TOS, and only that stuff that the general public already heard of?
How the hell do original movies work then, that have entirely new characters and storylines?
There is no publicity value to leverage in telling Garth's story - none whatever.
The moment they announce that it's Khan, though, the movie becomes a self-generating publicity machine - from initial casting rumors through secretive shooting through sneak previews and opening day.
There is no publicity value to leverage in telling Garth's story - none whatever.
The moment they announce that it's Khan, though, the movie becomes a self-generating publicity machine - from initial casting rumors through secretive shooting through sneak previews and opening day.
Goddamnit!
What publicity value did Nero have? Why do you guys all think they can only use stuff from TOS, and only stuff the general public already knows? This is simply ridiculous!
No one thinks anything of the kind. If Khan had never been discussed by folks at the studio, there wouldn't be polls and continual chatter about it here.
Having established that it's been under consideration, however, one sees the reasons that it would be attractive for them. And of course, the studios are always looking for familiar hooks for the "general audience" whether through casting or the popularity of a title or product itself.
Nero was incidental and the name recognition factor of the bad guy pretty unimportant for the first outing, because at the time the casting and sneak peaks of the main crew would be the focus as it would be the first time they were "recast" or at least in such a major fashion. The same holds true of Khan.
You can blame Harve Bennett since had he not chosen "Space Seed" to make a follow up movie for Khan would have just been one among many a weekly villain and gone off into obscurity.
Turning this into Khanapaloza has a certain marketing value just as Dennis has pointed out.
Nothing. This movie will be made for the people in the mall, not for us. Well okay, it will be made according to what Abrams, Orci and Kurtzmann want, and then for the people in the mall, which is how Trek XI was made.
It's just an educated guess, based on the way Hollywood thinks (remake, remake, remake).
Sometimes they work fine, sometimes they flop even when they're good and sometimes that's because they lack name recognition. A good writer can make a large range of stories work. All things being equal, why not choose a story that has name recognition?
That's how Star Trek XI got made to begin with. According to your logic, Paramount should have nixed Abrams' idea and told him to go make an original space opera movie. That copycat! Doesn't he have enough imagination to come up with something new?
None, but they didn't need it. They had Kirk, Spock, Enterprise to provide name recognition. But that was a whole year ago and now they need new new new name recognition. Khan is really the only option.
Once again people: you want an original story not derived from TOS? What story would that be?
This "its not original" meme really needs to die and I've noticed is the last appeal of fanboys on the internet as if they know so much more than those who figure this stuff out and get paid for it.
Sure its original, like every new production of Hamlet or Henry V is original, more so since the game board Kirk would meet Khan on has been altered, logically whatever story (though it would have elements) being told will be different at least in broad strokes since we all can say with certainty no matter the bad guy - he's going to get it in the end. That's just how Summer blockbusters work.
Sure its original, like every new production of Hamlet or Henry V is original, more so since the game board Kirk would meet Khan on has been altered, logically whatever story (though it would have elements) being told will be different at least in broad strokes since we all can say with certainty no matter the bad guy - he's going to get it in the end. That's just how Summer blockbusters work.
I'd rather they didn't. The Khan arc was something that happened over a long period of time, and like the new Trek if they tried to smush it all together into a single movie it'll seem weird and out of place (I'm looking at you, teenage Chekov). The best they could do is do an adaptation of Space Seed, but I think the general public knows more about the Wrath of Khan so I fear they'll try to go from the discovery of the Botany Bay to Khan's rampage within the span of a 1.5 hour movie.
The problem with that is they just did a Wrath of Khan-esque movie with Nero in Star Trek XI, and Nemesis before that. Of course, they could just take an entirely new direction but there are so many ways to ruin the already perfect Khan ark I really wish they'd just leave that one alone and come up with something new. I like J.J.'s Star Trek better when it's distanced from Gene's.
The problem with that is they just did a Wrath of Khan-esque movie with Nero in Star Trek XI, and Nemesis before that. Of course, they could just take an entirely new direction but there are so many ways to ruin the already perfect Khan ark I really wish they'd just leave that one alone and come up with something new. I like J.J.'s Star Trek better when it's distanced from Gene's.
Please No.....just how many of the trek films have involved the somewhat cracked, obsessive, manic villian wanting to hunt the enterprise to extinction?
Khan: ST II
Kruge: ST III
Sybok: STV
General Chang: STVI
St Generations: Malcom McDowell
St: Insurrection: Commander Pull Skin
St: 1st Contact: Borg Queen
St Nemesis: Khan Redux (much like the plot)
ST 2009: Nero
Can we can this trope already?
for a variation, how about a klingon commander who is ordered to get intelligence on federations new flagship and crew via whatever means nessesary? The klingon commander knows his ship is severely outclassed by the Enterprise, so he has to use his brain.
Khan: ST II
Kruge: ST III
Sybok: STV
General Chang: STVI
St Generations: Malcom McDowell
St: Insurrection: Commander Pull Skin
St: 1st Contact: Borg Queen
St Nemesis: Khan Redux (much like the plot)
ST 2009: Nero
Can we can this trope already?
for a variation, how about a klingon commander who is ordered to get intelligence on federations new flagship and crew via whatever means nessesary? The klingon commander knows his ship is severely outclassed by the Enterprise, so he has to use his brain.
There seems to be a lot of people stuck on the idea that if they do a Khan movie, it has to be TWOK style. They haven't met Khan yet... I'm sure there are plenty of ways that they can do the first meeting without it being "Crazed madman hunts Enterprise". We're complaining about the writers not being original by bringing back this villian, and yet we are failing to show any originality in thinking about what could possibly be done with it.
There is no publicity value to leverage in telling Garth's story - none whatever.
The moment they announce that it's Khan, though, the movie becomes a self-generating publicity machine - from initial casting rumors through secretive shooting through sneak previews and opening day.
as sharr khan said
if khan had not appeared in wrath the publicity value of the name wouldnt be there either.
khan was made into trek myth by the movie.
why not elevate another character like garth to broaden the mythos??
But my point in saying it was, they'll tap into what they are sure the general public "thinks they know" about Star Trek. The same rules apply in the sequel that applied in the first. Its why you were never gonna get a movie without all the original bridge crew recast, or it not ending with Kirk as Captain Kirk.
Khan might not have risen to mythic proportions without WOK but he's there now and they've been prodded about his inclusion since almost before the first movie premiered in the media. It will take place sometime and not in offshoot material.
Now Dennis and I could be totally wrong here, they could have come up with something totally "new" (there is no such thing, but thats another topic) we haven't even thought of yet - though it more than likely will link back to the established mythology in some way or at least some major element of whatever story they're going to tell will have a root in something that's gone before. That is actually part of the huge appeal of having an "alternate universe" which is far less interesting if you're not going back and looking at things we think we know through a different lens. That's why "The Mirror Universe" is always interesting.
BTW if around two hours and forty odd minutes counts as being over used than all Klingons have no business in any other movie. Yet they will be because they're major players in what normal none Trekkies think of when they think "Star Trek".
Just as you can tell Hamlet over and over (with far less leeway involved as you can change the setting but not the text when it comes to Shakespeare), you can find a new use for Khan in this rebooted universe.
I think some people are confusing the reuse of the Khan character for the reuse of a Khan story, which is not what the writers have indicated they desire to do. I would think a remake of an already established specific story would require monies and writing credits to be shared, which I don't think Paramount wants.
Keep in mind, the antagonist is the issue here, not the story.
Keep in mind, the antagonist is the issue here, not the story.
I always enjoy when they make a reference (however vague) to the old series or a previous series. So seeing Kahn again wouldn't be bad.
There is something to be said about having brand new story lines, though -- it is a limitless universe they are exploring!
Having said that, I liked Dr Pulaski in The Next Generation and any other mention of the original series whenever it comes up.
There is something to be said about having brand new story lines, though -- it is a limitless universe they are exploring!
Having said that, I liked Dr Pulaski in The Next Generation and any other mention of the original series whenever it comes up.
I think it would be awesome if we didn't see Khan in the next film but they left some kind of hint for a future encounter. Like overhearing a transmission that the Botany Bay was found, or that the search for the ship was given priority by Starfleet, maybe even in the last few minutes of the movie.
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