Except Admiral Pike pretty much said the exact opposite in 'A Quality of Mercy'. If time repaired itself, he wouldn't have to go back in time on his own and tell his past self to do things differently. Heck, this episode itself showed that an entire Dept. of Temporal Investigations and La'an had to actively do something because alt-Kirk's evil timeline didn't repair itself.
Khan and the Eugenics War
- Thread starter SiddFinch1
- Start date
Is there ever a point to these posts?
I don't want to get off-topic or target anyone, but I'm always a bit annoyed that the "ignore" function is not a true block function. I had assumed that it was 2 way, and people who were blocked can't see what you write. It is a bit frustrating when one occasionally clicks "show ignored content" (sometimes you lose the flow of the topic with it on) and find that personal taunts are still being thrown at you (meaning they're not actually really blocked), which kind of diminishes the point. Ok, well back on topic.
We don’t know if time is naturally repairing itself.
If anything, temporal investigations could be the ones doing the repairing, especially since this episode establishes that La’an was necessary to repair the damage. If time naturally repairs itself, why would she and Kirk have to go back in the first place?
That becomes especially true at a time when Paramount is basically disappearing an entire Trek series from their streaming service.
If anything, temporal investigations could be the ones doing the repairing, especially since this episode establishes that La’an was necessary to repair the damage. If time naturally repairs itself, why would she and Kirk have to go back in the first place?
I do think one of the issues in doing these revisions is that they’ve set themselves up for some future producer/IP holder to easily separate and wall-off these shows from everything else if they want to overwrite it to create a new series or just feels that these shows get in the way of telling a Star Trek story that uses details from the original timeline.
That becomes especially true at a time when Paramount is basically disappearing an entire Trek series from their streaming service.
It's getting close.
That being said, if Legacy happens.. it's a safe bet Matalas will keep the classic TNG designs. They packed up the rebuilt bridge parts, saved em, and it could be rebuilt again someday.
Unhide what is relevant for context, while scrolling by what is not relevant for anything
It's hard to say. Over at Star Wars for example, no in-universe explanations were provided after the ownership change to Disney and 2 Ewok tv movies, 2 animated shows (Droids and Ewoks), and an award winning animated miniseries (2003 Clone Wars) were just declared non-canon without in-universe explanation. Even when Star Wars introduced a literal time travel plotline in the animated show Rebels, at no point was this said or even implied to provide a way for the old continuity to exist alongside the new, in-universe.
No to Bizarro
Yes to DSC
I don't think you can take what Adelaide Kane's unstable character was saying literally. That was her take on it, but it's very reminiscent of Annorax on Voyager saying Time has 'Moods' etc.
If time always repairs itself, it wouldn't really need Kirk and Picard to constantly fix things whenever the bad guys tamper with the timeline.
Well we know that Picard season 3 occurs in a timeline where the Constitution Class looks like this:
So maybe by the 25th century temporal investigations has "corrected" the timeline to its original state? lol
18 months of a refit goes a long way.
And it's hilarious to use one's imagination...
And it's hilarious to use one's imagination...
I think they haven't done anything in the slightest because the Nu Trek shows are DEEPLY tied to Old Trek continuity.
No, it's just the PIC art team was more nostalgic than the SNW team.
Remember in DSC Season 2 they reused footage of the Enterprise from TOS for the previously on instead of doing a a render with the new model.
Nope.
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I think we can blame the timeline shift for inconsistent warp speeds, the appearance of the Enterprise in the Cage (which contradicts Q&A, it's too soon for a refit), obviously the change in Eugenics Wars dates, and maybe the appearance of Robert April in TAS and SNW--basically things that there's no remotely plausible way you can explain within the timeline itself. Everything else that can be explained somewhat in-timeline should be left to in-timeline explanations (the Enterprise for some reason was refitted to look like cardboard just before 2265) because there are just way too many references to the cardboard Enterprise and if you retcon that out entirely, the domino effect on the entire francise goes out of control (not least which the Defiant in the Mirror Enterprise episodes also looked like cardboard)
My take:
The late 1950s. Experiments in human augmentation through selective breeding begins that would have lead to a group of supermen taking over the world in the 1990s. This is curtailed by Temporal agents from the future, pruning those events from the timeline.
1996. Adam Soong joins Project Khan, another attempt to create augmented humans. Possibly building on the earlier research. Soong leaves the project but it continues, leading to the birth of several Augments in 2010s.
2020s Soong uses techniques developed at Project Khan to create enhanced soldiers for Spearhead Operations. In the 2020s there is an attack at the projects headquarters by unknown assailants, resulting in the deaths of several security guards and an attempt on the life of an Augment named "Khan". In 2024 Adam Soong decides to rejoin the project, taking a leadership role.
2040s. A group of the project's supermen, including Khan, take control of several countries. This launches the Eugenics Wars. The supermen are defeated, but Khan disappears along with eighty of his fellow supermen.
2130s One of Soong's descendants Arik Soong, steals several Augment embryos and raises them as his children, They are later killed after coming into conflict with the Earth ship, Enterprise.
2160s At Earth's urging the newly created United Federation of Planets bans most forms of genetic engineering. The UFP's Starfleet specifally bans any Augmented individual from joining.
2260s Khan and his fellow Augments are discovered abord the sleeper ship Botany Bay by the Federation starship Enterprise. Khan is exiled to the Ceti Alpha V after attempting to commandeer the Enterprise.
2280s Khan gains control of the starship Reliant and seeks revenge on James T. Kirk, the commanding officer of the ship who sent him into exile. Khan is killed when the Reliant is destroyed.
The late 1950s. Experiments in human augmentation through selective breeding begins that would have lead to a group of supermen taking over the world in the 1990s. This is curtailed by Temporal agents from the future, pruning those events from the timeline.
1996. Adam Soong joins Project Khan, another attempt to create augmented humans. Possibly building on the earlier research. Soong leaves the project but it continues, leading to the birth of several Augments in 2010s.
2020s Soong uses techniques developed at Project Khan to create enhanced soldiers for Spearhead Operations. In the 2020s there is an attack at the projects headquarters by unknown assailants, resulting in the deaths of several security guards and an attempt on the life of an Augment named "Khan". In 2024 Adam Soong decides to rejoin the project, taking a leadership role.
2040s. A group of the project's supermen, including Khan, take control of several countries. This launches the Eugenics Wars. The supermen are defeated, but Khan disappears along with eighty of his fellow supermen.
2130s One of Soong's descendants Arik Soong, steals several Augment embryos and raises them as his children, They are later killed after coming into conflict with the Earth ship, Enterprise.
2160s At Earth's urging the newly created United Federation of Planets bans most forms of genetic engineering. The UFP's Starfleet specifally bans any Augmented individual from joining.
2260s Khan and his fellow Augments are discovered abord the sleeper ship Botany Bay by the Federation starship Enterprise. Khan is exiled to the Ceti Alpha V after attempting to commandeer the Enterprise.
2280s Khan gains control of the starship Reliant and seeks revenge on James T. Kirk, the commanding officer of the ship who sent him into exile. Khan is killed when the Reliant is destroyed.
The timeline change is pretty much a lifesaver for a lot of continuity issues. It just occurred to me that TAS April, improbably but not unrealistically, could basically have the same parents in his timeline as SNW April, and his appearance in TAS is the result of the extremely rare but documented instance of https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/white-baby-born-black-parents-1c6437718 that somehow happened to April's parents in the old 1990s Eugenics Wars timeline.
Too shiny. Should look like thisWell we know that Picard season 3 occurs in a timeline where the Constitution Class looks like this:
So maybe by the 25th century temporal investigations has "corrected" the timeline to its original state? lol
So is the Kelvin Universe. How are these revisions and changes fundamentally any different than the Kelvin Universe?
Other than "because Paramount and Akiva Goldsman says so" there isn't any diff. And if that changes tomorrow, it would be hard to argue Nu Trek is within the same "Old Trek continuity" when you've put out stories detailing how it isn't the same timeline, and how things have been updated, re-imagined, etc.
If we buy in to the idea presented in this latest episode, that the timeline is constantly in flux because of shenanigans in the Temporal Wars, whose to say that what was true previously is true at later points in the continuity? I was joking when I posted the USS New Jersey, but there's nothing that would prevent Matalas from saying Picard season 3 and Legacy is in the original timeline or that Temporal Investigations went back and fixed the Romulan incursions.
I think it’s part of the reason a lot of people HATED the Temporal Cold War storyline in Enterprise. Without any hard rules, it becomes a tangled mess where nothing is fixed.
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Something I wish could be explained, but I know can’t and won’t be: why it is that sometimes timeline alteration leads to a changed timeline (“Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”), but sometimes it creates a separate parallel timeline coexisting with the first one (Star Trek ‘09).
Except that they introduced the means of changing the SW timeline, when Ezra brought Ahsoka forward in time. Even if they don't do anything with it, all the so-called "Legends" stuff could either be a Jedi/Sith premonition, or naturally folded into present continuity, as a natural process of the timeline self-correcting itself, so, who knows?
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