Kes Leaving and Doc
- Thread starter Odo
- Start date
He's evolved so no.
Deleted scene:
<Janeway> Doctor, there's some unpleasant news I have to tell you. Kes' evolution became a danger to the entire ship, so she had to leave ship and shortly after that she seemed to evolve into a higher state of existence, taking the shuttle with her.
<EMH starts sobbing and wailing> My mentor! The first person who appreciated me as more than just a computer program, the first one that saw a soul in me! And later she became my most trusted assistant! How can I go on without her? How can I
<Janeway> OK, enough of this. Computer, delete all of the EMH's memory files and logs that have any clear indication of Kes.
<After some thinking> Oh, and make him incapable of recognizing that Neelix' one lung actually comes from a different species.
It wasn't any problem after that
<Janeway> Doctor, there's some unpleasant news I have to tell you. Kes' evolution became a danger to the entire ship, so she had to leave ship and shortly after that she seemed to evolve into a higher state of existence, taking the shuttle with her.
<EMH starts sobbing and wailing> My mentor! The first person who appreciated me as more than just a computer program, the first one that saw a soul in me! And later she became my most trusted assistant! How can I go on without her? How can I
<Janeway> OK, enough of this. Computer, delete all of the EMH's memory files and logs that have any clear indication of Kes.
<After some thinking> Oh, and make him incapable of recognizing that Neelix' one lung actually comes from a different species.
It wasn't any problem after that
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Kes really deserved a full farewell arc. Shoving her departure into the same episode as Seven's integration into the crew honestly shorted both elements. Kes deserved to get to have her goodbyes with everyone, not just Janeway and Tuvok, while Seven should have been a subject of more discussion among the crew and how willing they'd be to work with a Borg drone.
But the fact that afterwards, Kes is basically just kinda... not talked about is REALLY irksome (I think, Fury aside, she's only referenced in two later episodes, both times by Neelix - she's not even referenced by the Devore, who, you'd think, would have taken A LOT of interest in Voyager having had a telepath as powerful as her on board, even if she'd departed over a year and thirty thousand light years prior, or ANY reference in Year of Hell...). I mean, we even have Latent Image, an episode with flashbacks to before Seven joined the crew, and yet it's Tom acting as the nurse, without any word about her!
But the fact that afterwards, Kes is basically just kinda... not talked about is REALLY irksome (I think, Fury aside, she's only referenced in two later episodes, both times by Neelix - she's not even referenced by the Devore, who, you'd think, would have taken A LOT of interest in Voyager having had a telepath as powerful as her on board, even if she'd departed over a year and thirty thousand light years prior, or ANY reference in Year of Hell...). I mean, we even have Latent Image, an episode with flashbacks to before Seven joined the crew, and yet it's Tom acting as the nurse, without any word about her!
I didn't like that very much either.
Then again, how often was Tash referenced in TNG after she was gone (save for her re-appearances as both herself and her daughter in Yesterday's Enterprise, Unification, and All Good Things)? Or Jadzia in S7 of DS9?
Then again, how often was Tash referenced in TNG after she was gone (save for her re-appearances as both herself and her daughter in Yesterday's Enterprise, Unification, and All Good Things)? Or Jadzia in S7 of DS9?
Hey, she fared better than Doctor Pulaski, who apparently just fell down a turboshaft right after the end of S2!
Tasha got, if anything, an unusually high number of mentions (you didn't mention "Measure of a Man"). Jadzia's death resonated via the character of Ezri in much of S7.
Because I honestly don't remember whether she got mentioned frequently or not, and therefore I meant it as an open question, not a suggestive one. I don't recall her being mentioned in Measure of a Man '; you know of any ander episodes too? It's a pity the Star Trek Script Search tool isn't online anymore, it would have been ideal for such questions.
As for Jadzi resonating in Ezri, I guess that was unavoidable to a certain extent. They had to mention Jadzia in explaining who Ezri was, for example, when introducing her.
No one among the crew did seem to do that.
It was like she never existed.
Until the not so nice writers and producers decided to bring back the character to be humiliated and destroyed.
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The Tasha hologram reappeared in The Most Toys, the episode Legacy took the Enterprise to her homeworld where they met her sister, she was among the list of people Riker used as examples of fallen crew when Worf was paralyzed and wanted to die in Ethics... She was remembered at least.
But when Kes left, left a ship that SHOULD be very cognizant of the limited crew, it was quickly like she’d never been there, even if they were discussing events that should have brought her up - obviously Year of Hell should have mentioned her in some capacity, but there was also Latent Image, an episode that explicitly flashed back to her time on the ship - it’s made a point that the death of Ensign Jetal happened before Seven joined the crew, but no one acknowledges that Kes would have been among the crew. Saying nothing of broader occasions of her as the Doctor’s medical assistant, or other references to the past.
But when Kes left, left a ship that SHOULD be very cognizant of the limited crew, it was quickly like she’d never been there, even if they were discussing events that should have brought her up - obviously Year of Hell should have mentioned her in some capacity, but there was also Latent Image, an episode that explicitly flashed back to her time on the ship - it’s made a point that the death of Ensign Jetal happened before Seven joined the crew, but no one acknowledges that Kes would have been among the crew. Saying nothing of broader occasions of her as the Doctor’s medical assistant, or other references to the past.
"Latent Image" is just what I was coming here to complain about!
I actually think "The Gift" does a good job of having a nice farewell moment for Kes and the Doctor earlier in the episode, before it's clear she is going to leave.
But "Latent Image", that episode drives me insane. The fact that the flashbacks are explicitly dated to before Seven came onboard, yet Kes is not involved in that story at all. And if they were doing something as big as erasing the Doctor's memory to not have him disabled by trauma, there is no way Kes would not have been involved in that, were she around. She was always the first to speak up for his rights. It's impossible to believe she would have been a non-entity in those events.
And there was a period after "The Gift" where Seven was parked in the cargo bay and kept at a remove. It would have been very easy to date the "Latent Image" trauma to that time, and they could have used the same plotting around Seven not knowing what had happened.
I would agree that the TNG characters always felt (appropriately) haunted by Tasha's death, whereas Kes did feel simply forgotten after her departure (and sometimes forgotten before, too). In addition to the examples already cited, the TNG crew also explicitly talked about Tasha in "The Bonding." "The Most Toys" has a subplot where Troi counsels Worf on the experience of getting promotions from the death of valued colleagues. And the way Picard tells everyone he was just with Tasha in "All Good Things" -- talk about haunted!
I actually think "The Gift" does a good job of having a nice farewell moment for Kes and the Doctor earlier in the episode, before it's clear she is going to leave.
But "Latent Image", that episode drives me insane. The fact that the flashbacks are explicitly dated to before Seven came onboard, yet Kes is not involved in that story at all. And if they were doing something as big as erasing the Doctor's memory to not have him disabled by trauma, there is no way Kes would not have been involved in that, were she around. She was always the first to speak up for his rights. It's impossible to believe she would have been a non-entity in those events.
And there was a period after "The Gift" where Seven was parked in the cargo bay and kept at a remove. It would have been very easy to date the "Latent Image" trauma to that time, and they could have used the same plotting around Seven not knowing what had happened.
I would agree that the TNG characters always felt (appropriately) haunted by Tasha's death, whereas Kes did feel simply forgotten after her departure (and sometimes forgotten before, too). In addition to the examples already cited, the TNG crew also explicitly talked about Tasha in "The Bonding." "The Most Toys" has a subplot where Troi counsels Worf on the experience of getting promotions from the death of valued colleagues. And the way Picard tells everyone he was just with Tasha in "All Good Things" -- talk about haunted!
Tasha wasn't mentioned that often. The Redemption two-parter, The Bonding, and The Most Toys. Not sure when else she was mentioned.
I"m not sure I'd count Yesterday's Enterprise or the finale.....
And Jadzia was gone only for a season, and she was bought up fairly often, especially when Worf and Ezri were together.
Voyager didn't just press the Reset Button, it danced on it. Kes was a casualty. So was pretty much every other character who died.
Until the not so nice writers and producers decided to bring back the character to be humiliated and destroyed.
You're preaching to the choir on that one, even if I focus on a different shafted character.
Now I like that one even less. I think that fhe Doc was way out of line, complaining about a procedure that effectively saved his life. Especially given that Janeway had made similar decisions for organic characters (Tuvix, B'Elanna, and Seven to name three), so it wasn't a matter of him being a hologram. The Doctor was undoubtedly fully versed on procedures such as amputation and excision.
But agreed, while I think Kes would have ultimately understood, she should have been mentioned. Or better yet, featured in this episode instead of "The Abomination"
DS9 was a series that learned to lay off the Reset Button as it went. I expect that if Lee Nollis (for example) had showed up later in the series, he'd have been a recurring character.
Relative to other characters who left the series for one reason or another, Tasha was mentioned a heck of a lot.
Things did not carry much weight as they could.
I wouldn't say "a heck of a lot"
The Most Toys, we simply saw the hologram and a knowingly look between Wesley and Geordi. Tasha was mentioned very briefly and fleetingly in A measure of a man and The Bonding. She had more than a fleeting mention in the Redemption two-parter and Legacy. Beyond that...nothing. . Kes should have gotten a couple more mentions yes.
But Jadzia definitely got a heck of a lot name drops in ONE season.
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And Voyager, perhaps more than any other Trek, was a show that seemed to beg for that, for consequences. For losses, for damage to the ship, running out of torpedoes and other supplies. And for character growth, too.
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