Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Gojira]

Pardon the expression, but this is "Trump Logic". Just because series that were produced BEFORE Enterprise existed don't reference Enterprise doesn't mean that Enterprise is suddenly relegated to occurring in an entirely separate timeline that itself didn't exist at the time Enterprise was produced.

I'm no fan of Trump. But what you've exactly stated is why it makes it so easy to fit ENT in the Kelvin timeline. With really no reference to ENT in the shows that were produced prior to ENT there is nothing preventing anyone from placing it in the Kelvin timeline especially when the Kelvin timeline is the only timeline that actually does reference it.

 

[Gojira]

^ You're right that people are free to create their own Fanfiction/Fanon, but that doesn't actually give said things any official weight or standing.

I never claimed that my fan fiction carried any weight.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I may be conflating your posts with those of Tarek71, something for which I apologize.

 

[Gojira]

^ I may be conflating your posts with those of Tarek71, something for which I apologize.

No problem.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sure, but you dont have to be a professional writer to imagine a different version of events.

Most people can run 50 meters. How many of them run well enough so that people will pay to see them doing that in a stadium?

Job title isn't the *only* difference between pros and amateurs. There is a level of capability correlated with the job title. High skill in a given field is not necessarily absent in someone who doesn't make a living doing it, but there's something called the Dunning-Kruger effect that amateurs who attempt to self-evaluate would do well to appreciate.

This is relevant, because most fan films don't tell stories of the same caliber that canon episodes generally do. Thankfully, most fan film producers understand that, but somehow a lot of fan film fans don't. None of that stops me from enjoying fan films, some immensely including those that fall short of professional standards, also including those that contradict canon. However, their continuities are completely apart from canon's.

 

[Tarek71]

Most people can run 50 meters. How many of them run well enough so that people will pay to see them doing that in a stadium?

Job title isn't the *only* difference between pros and amateurs. There is a level of capability correlated with the job title. High skill in a given field is not necessarily absent in someone who doesn't make a living doing it, but there's something called the Dunning-Kruger effect that amateurs who attempt to self-evaluate would do well to appreciate.

This is relevant, because most fan films don't tell stories of the same caliber that canon episodes generally do. Thankfully, most fan film producers understand that, but somehow a lot of fan film fans don't. None of that stops me from enjoying fan films, some immensely including those that fall short of professional standards, also including those that contradict canon. However, their continuities are completely apart from canon's.

My comment was in regard to this bizarre conflation of published/unpublished, aired/unaired with retcon/not retcon, reimagination/ not a reimagination. Unprofessional, unpublished, unaired, poorly conceived, and ill advised retcons and reimaginations are still retcons and reimaginations. Obviously professional skill and knowledge are essential to actually being any good at a great many professions, including writing.

 

[Tarek71]

^ You're right that people are free to create their own Fanfiction/Fanon, but that doesn't actually give said things any official weight or standing.

Never said it did. Even professional treatments, scripts and novels written lack weight or standing if not greenlighted by the TPTB. We all agree.

 

[captainkirk]

Then I ask you this: if we don't know the story, why bother getting in a fuss speculating about it when they'v said it's Prime?

Ultimately, does it even really matter, if the show is good? Does it matter, likewise, if the show sucks?

In the end, it doesn't matter.

It matters because one allows the writers more freedom than the other. I know people keep saying that they can contradict the old stuff all they want, and that's fine for little throwaway lines, but there's a point where it just becomes disrespectful to all that came before. Kelvin-timeline makes those problems go away. You could do a story where they encounter the Doomsday Machine, the Romulans, the Borg, or almost any other villain and have no worries about continuity.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Please no Section 31, 32, 33, 34 or 35

This *is* a prequel, so maybe they'll have Section 30.

 

[jaime]

Please no Section 31, 32, 33, 34 or 35

47?

 

[Campe]

I Am a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist and it's called a mind reading error when you imply my motives for having my own way of viewing the events of Trek is because you think I am being errogant or I have an inflated sense of importance. You're reading something into me that I am not doing.

My having my own little continuity isn't a grand condemnation toward those that make Trek or I think I know better. All I am simply doing is finding some way to fit some contradictions or inconsistencies in a way that makes sense to me.

To be fair, did I say I got sick of you or Gojita when it came to this? No. I said I got sick of people. I probably should have been more specific.

Regardless, let's just agree to disagree on this whole thing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm no fan of Trump. But what you've exactly stated is why it makes it so easy to fit ENT in the Kelvin timeline.

And the fact that the timelines don't diverge until decades AFTER ENT takes place, makes it even easier.

 

[jamestyler]

But the Enterprise is barely ten years old and we still have no idea the ages of Discovery and the Shenzou. Unlike cars, this is a military/scientific organization that likely keeps its ships up-to-date with periodic refits. We already know the Enterprise underwent one such refit between "The Cage" and TOS proper.

So the equipment, all things being equal, should be roughly the same across ships. That way you aren't having to retrain people everytime they take on a new assignment.

A reboot solves these issues.

Periodic refits are costly and need a place to be conducted - if that were the case, Shenzhou will get it and look like the TOS Enterprise on it's next trip to spacedock. Which could be conveniently after Discovery wraps it's final episode

As for equipment - it's all the same buttons, just different presentations. Using the car example - they're both wildly different, but you still drive them the exact same way - and we've seen far different styles of bridge layout on TNG era shows than we have anywhere else, even down to the conn; TOS has a two-person system, as does Kelvin era, as does (assumptively) Shenzhou. But Defiant just needed the one much like the NX Class, E-D needed one and an Ops Manager, Voyager needed one big giant console.

All a Trek bridge needs to be a Trek bridge is a captains chair centre stage, a pilot seated somewhere in front and conveniently placed officers on the outskirts. The rest is just a fancy paint job.

I'm wondering if there's any truth to the notion that the Discovery is a rebuilt Shenzou after a near-fatal destruction in the pilot episode. Can't even remember where that rumor came from, but I recall it making some waves when it first went out there to test the wind. The two ships look way too fundamentally different to have the same spaceframe with a new skin, IMO, but as far as I know, the theory has yet to be debunked.

I'm honestly shocked that theory (which I think came from the traditional 'insider' comments on a notice board!) got any traction.

Who seriously thinks you can glue two ships together and make a new one?

 

[Gojira]

To be fair, did I say I got sick of you or Gojita when it came to this? No. I said I got sick of people. I probably should have been more specific.

Regardless, let's just agree to disagree on this whole thing.

I'm all for agreeing to disagree and moving on.

 

[Tuskin38]

With really no reference to ENT in the shows that were produced prior to ENT there is nothing preventing anyone from placing it in the Kelvin timeline especially when the Kelvin timeline is the only timeline that actually does reference it.

But Enterprise itself directly references the Prime Timeline.

 

[BillJ]

But Enterprise itself directly references the Prime Timeline.

The Defiant was from the Prime timeline, but was shown to have crossed universes. I'm struggling for any other reference that specifically locks Enterprise into continuity with the rest of the Prime timeline.

The presence of the Borg could indicate that Enterprise exists in an altered timeline created by the Borg interference in the 21st century.

I think one could make the case of Enterprise existing as part of the Prime timeline, or its own created by the Borg interference.

 

[Gojira]

But Enterprise itself directly references the Prime Timeline.

There are going to be considerable overlaps of events in alternate timelines.

 

[Albinator]

It matters because one allows the writers more freedom than the other. I know people keep saying that they can contradict the old stuff all they want, and that's fine for little throwaway lines, but there's a point where it just becomes disrespectful to all that came before. Kelvin-timeline makes those problems go away. You could do a story where they encounter the Doomsday Machine, the Romulans, the Borg, or almost any other villain and have no worries about continuity.

All fair points (though for all the complaints about prequels and re-treads, you really want to see them encounter all the same villains and retell the same stories?) but why does it matter TO YOU enough for you to dispute what the writers themselves (the ones you seem so concerned about) have said about which timeline it takes place in?

While it's fun to speculate, you seem angry about-- or at least belligerent to-- the statements they've made about the show's continuity. Until they say or something in the show disproves that its NOT, I'm taking them at their word that it's set in the prime timeline. So far your only evidence is set design and special effects.

But I stand by my previous statement: end of the day, it doesn't matter (at least to me) what continuity they set it in if the show is high quality.

 

[Jedman67]

47?

42

 

[Albinator]

I'm no fan of Trump. But what you've exactly stated is why it makes it so easy to fit ENT in the Kelvin timeline. With really no reference to ENT in the shows that were produced prior to ENT there is nothing preventing anyone from placing it in the Kelvin timeline especially when the Kelvin timeline is the only timeline that actually does reference it.

Maybe I've missed part of this discussion, but Enterprise exists in BOTH the prime AND Kelvin Timeline-- the Kelvin timeline is an OFFSHOOT not a PARALLEL, meaning prior to the Narada's appearance, the two timelines shared the same history.