Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Noname Given]

Well in the novelization of TMP, Roddenberry claimed that most of TOS never happened. Since he was the creator and that was his intention at the time, do we accept his idea or accept what was on screen? Most of us will accept what we saw on screen, but I have seen comments from some of the people who worship at the altar of Roddenberry who only accept the Treks he worked on (TOS 1 & 2, TMP, TNG 1 & 2).

^^^
Well, to that end - GR was pissed in the end that he SOLD the TOS rights and IP to Paramount -- AND that Paramount turned it into a viable money making machine over the years; of which GR got squat (again - because he SOLD the IP for a lump sum.)

That's why every time Paramount brought GR back to consult, or be involved (TMP and TNG) - GR basically attempted to re-write the Star Trek Universe to effectively say "TOS didn't really exist" (because he didn't own it and got nothing from it; or saying that 'back then due to studio interference/budget, he couldn't do what he really wanted...'; thus TNG was (for him) the better/truer version of Star trek (and something he now owned rights to - and get a piece of the profits - merchandising and otherwise.)

 

[captainkirk]

That's why every time Paramount brought GR back to consult, or be involved (TMP and TNG) - GR basically attempted to re-write the Star Trek Universe to effectively say "TOS didn't really exist" (because he didn't own it and got nothing from it; or saying that 'back then due to studio interference/budget, he couldn't do what he really wanted...'; thus TNG was (for him) the better/truer version of Star trek (and something he now owned rights to - and get a piece of the profits - merchandising and otherwise.)

That's a fascinating take on it. I don't know if it was intended, but I always felt that Zephram Cochrane in FC was an allegory for Gene Roddenberry. He's a substance-abuser who comes up with an idea which he hopes will make so much money he can live all day surrounded by naked women, and then all these people come and start talking about his great vision and his legacy. Roddenberry had great ideas, but he needed people around him like Coon, Justman, and Fontana to filter the good from the bad.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't know if it was intended, but I always felt that Zephram Cochrane in FC was an allegory for Gene Roddenberry. He's a substance-abuser who comes up with an idea which he hopes will make so much money he can live all day surrounded by naked women, and then all these people come and start talking about his great vision and his legacy.

Yes, that's an interesting possibility, and it certainly fits.

Does anybody know whether Berman, Braga, or Moore confirmed the allegory as intentional?

 

[jamestyler]

Does anybody know whether Berman, Braga, or Moore confirmed the allegory as intentional?

I seriously hope no one ever does ask them as they'll deny it out of politeness and I've been telling my wife this same tale for years!

 

[MadeIndescribable]

That's a fascinating take on it. I don't know if it was intended, but I always felt that Zephram Cochrane in FC was an allegory for Gene Roddenberry. He's a substance-abuser who comes up with an idea which he hopes will make so much money he can live all day surrounded by naked women, and then all these people come and start talking about his great vision and his legacy. Roddenberry had great ideas, but he needed people around him like Coon, Justman, and Fontana to filter the good from the bad.

I can see the part about him being a flawed visionary, but for me that's about where the resemblance ends. I've never heard anything about Roddenberry being a substance abuser, and as much as the Ent crew helped out, that was mainly just to repair damage done by the Borg. In terms of the original phoenix crew, mostly we only hear about Zephram himself and Lily...

 

[JD]

When it comes to whether or not the show is Prime or Kelvin, it's the events and things that are referenced that matter, not the look of the uniforms or aliens. If we hear references to the Kelvin still being in service and George Kirk still being alive post 2233, then we know it's Prime, but if we hear references to the Kelvin being destroyed in a strange incident involving Romulans and a black hole, then we know it's Kelvin. If Spock is already aboard the Enterprise under Pike in 2255 it's Prime, but if he's at the teaching at the Academy then it's Kelvin.
The alien and uniform designs have been changed numerous times in the Prime timeline, so you can't determine which universe it's in based of off that stuff.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've never heard anything about Roddenberry being a substance abuser

I've heard he was quite the fan of many substances.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

I've heard he was quite the fan of many substances.

Have to admit it's the first I've heard of this, but then most of what I know about Roddenberry is in terms of Trek's production rather than his personal life.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Have to admit it's the first I've heard of this, but then most of what I know about Roddenberry is in terms of Trek's production rather than his personal life.

From the wiki based on information in the book Gene Roddenberry: The Myth and the Man Behind Star Trek.

In the late 1980s, Roddenberry was likely afflicted by the first manifestations of cerebral vascular disease and encephalopathy as a result of his longstanding recreational use of legal and illicit drugs, including alcohol,[161] cannabis, diazepam, secobarbital, methylphenidate, Dexamyl, and cocaine (which he had used regularly since the production of Star Trek: The Motion Picture).[126] Throughout much of his career, he had routinely used stimulants to work through the night on scripts, especially amphetamines.[162]

 

[Mr Awe]

I am in total agreement with you on that...it's why I always argue for a return to Prime. But I don't think DSC is out of line with it from what we have seen.

Agreed on on all points.

 

[Jayson1]

I have a question. What if the Klingon language is changed and they don't eat gagh or have Targ's or Stoviah Kor as a afterlife?
What if we not only get a whole knew look but a whole new race with just a old name being used to call it, with maybe a few nods to what they once were? Would this impact how you think of what universe the show is set in?
I know we already went with one change from "TOS" to the movies and then "TNG." but just how ingrained has the updated versions become and also does it matter we only got 3 years of "TOS" style Klingons but over 40 something years of the new style?

Jason

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I have a question. What if the Klingon language is changed and they don't eat gagh or have Targ's or Stoviah Kor as a afterlife?
What if we not only get a whole knew look but a whole new race with just a old name being used to call it, with maybe a few nods to what they once were? Would this impact how you think of what universe the show is set in?
I know we already went with one change from "TOS" to the movies and then "TNG." but just how ingrained has the updated versions become and also does it matter we only got 3 years of "TOS" style Klingons but over 40 something years of the new style?

Jason

All in if this a core group or some offshoot cult or something. Heck most of that is culture and religion. It would actually be interesting to see a Klingon group bucking the norm of the understood culture really.

 

[jaime]

All in if this a core group or some offshoot cult or something. Heck most of that is culture and religion. It would actually be interesting to see a Klingon group bucking the norm of the understood culture really.

Let's not forget we already saw one group of Klingon religious outcasts in the Delta quadrant.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Let's not forget we already saw one group of Klingon religious outcasts in the Delta quadrant.

Yep, I think they missed the mark by not making them a little more out there. But hey, they already had the costumes and make up. This one is a 100 years at lest before the Klingons we know and love and it could be a far, far older group.

 

[cultcross]

What if the Klingon language is changed and they don't eat gagh or have Targ's or Stoviah Kor as a afterlife?

Then we'll have returned to the original Klingons, who did none of that.

 

[dahj]

Are vegan Klingons canon?

 

[cultcross]

A warriors tofu!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Soy bacon is without honor."

 

[Campe]

"Today IS a good day to go gluten free!"

 

[Jayson1]

Then we'll have returned to the original Klingons, who did none of that.

After so much time as seeing the new aproach does that really seem possible if we want to accept this as prime universe? Wouldn't that sort of like if we went back to calling the Vulcans the Vulcanions's or Starfleet went back to being UESPHA? Even Kor,Kang and Kolath of "TOS" were made into new era Klingons on "DS9."

Jason