Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Noname Given]

Because some fans dislike JJ Trek

Some people dislike Star Trek: Voyager - but not one of those is trying to decanonize it.

My point:

The U.S.S. Kelvin:

and its Bridge:

EXISTED in the Prime Star Trek Universe/Timeline. The divergence happened when Nero's ship appeared and destroyed it But it (and it's bridge) were used in the 2230ies.

The U,S.S. Shenzhou looks old (especially given the NX-01 Saucer elements and Gold Deflector dish.) It is probably from the same period as the U.S. S. Kelvin or earlier - but either way given the Bridge design of the U.S. S. Kelvin - I don't see ANY issues with the Bridge Design of the U.S.S. Shenzhou as we see it in the Trailer; or have trouble seeing it as a design that was uswed in the 'Prime Universe' because we have canon evidence of a similar Bridge design.

Now I'm not judging the fact that given the designs you personally don't like what you see of the show in the Trailer. BUT, there's nothing to indicate it's in an alternate Star Trek Timeline (in fact the Producers say IT IS in the Prime Timeline) because again the U.S.S. Kelvin EXISTED in the Prime Timeline prior to the divergence that became the "JJ-Verse".

 

[Mirror Mirror]

^These two sentences were in the same paragraph.

And those two are not contradictions. The TOS setting is hot, the dated 1960's look is just that, dated and not hot. One does not need to be tried to the other.

 

[Ferengi Pirate]

I can only imagine the rumour mill and complaints for the original films had social media been around back then. Both TMP and TWOK had different uniforms and ship design. The great Roddenberry's role got reduced to a consultant status and Harve Bennett a "TV Guy" became the man in charge. And that's not taking into account Spock's death.

The internet would have been blown up.

Those two movies were moving the timeline forward.

This show is moving the timeline backwards before the start.

There is no issue here.

You cannot compare ANY forward change to the changes of a show that is happening before the beginning. The movies moving foward just have to follow the same general direction. This show have to stay within certain borders which is not. If this is taking place in the TV showverse. If this the JJ abramsverse, it's fine.

 

[Amaris]

Those two movies were moving the timeline forward.

This show is moving the timeline backwards before the start.

There is no issue here.

You cannot compare ANY forward change to the changes of a show that is happening before the beginning. The movies moving foward just have to follow the same general direction. This show have to stay within certain borders which is not. If this is taking place in the TV showverse. If this the JJ abramsverse, it's fine.

No it doesn't. It doesn't have to stay within any borders, since the borders prior to TOS and after ENT are not canonically defined. You may not like the design, but there it is, and it's canon. Plus, think about it: ENT is visually superior to TOS, yet it's supposed to have taken place more than a century before we first meet Kirk and Spock. Well, unless you think that between ENT and TOS we lost massive strides in technology, yet still managed to hold tight to everything else.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Those two movies were moving the timeline forward.

This show is moving the timeline backwards before the start.

There is no issue here.

You cannot compare ANY forward change to the changes of a show that is happening before the beginning. The movies moving foward just have to follow the same general direction. This show have to stay within certain borders which is not. If this is taking place in the TV showverse. If this the JJ abramsverse, it's fine.

TMP jumped 4 years and totally reworked everything from the ground up. A total reboot of everything. You guys are demanding it look like something that was 3 out of 51 years, something that got a total reboot.

 

[Jayson1]

A few things to mention. We haven't even seen the Discovery so I think it can be argued that we might be seeing sets that are even more advanced looking or something that is advanced looking yet somehow is able to capture the feel of "TOS." We might be putting alot of weight on sets that might be as important as say the battle bridge on "TNG." MIght not even see them again after the pilot for all we know.
Also the Kelvin ship might not count as a good design to look at because one could say it was to modern looking to fit in the Prime universe at that time. Plus it's easy to retcon away because the Kelvin timeline had to change before we meet the Kelvin because if you travel in time you alter the future which in turn alters the past even futher because things like the cold war, Data loosing his head or even Voyager being sent back to the big bang would also change just to give a few examples.
I will say that I have looked at the sets a little more and we might be overstating how futuristic they look and we could be feeling more influenced by the Abrams style filming and the new Klingons. Problem though like I mentioned we haven't seen the Discovery sets as of yet so I don't think the real arguments have even begun.

Jason

 

[YellowSubmarine]

We need GNPFO pipes - Goes Nowhere, Pisses Fans Off

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

@Everyone

Just to clear something up, not everyone has suggested the Kelvin exists in both timelines - Simon Pegg famously opined when writing Star Trek: Beyond that the quantum singularity had caused changes back throughout history, perhaps appearing at various junctures going back thousands of years, making the Kelvin verse a genuinely new parallel universe - this was also the attitude taken by Mike Okuda for the latest encyclopedia unless I'm mistaken.

This of course doesn't clear the issue up, but it's worth mentioning because a few people have said that the Kelvin definatly exists in both universes - actually, as usual, we just don't know, until one appears on screen in the Prime Timeline.

 

[cultcross]

The idea that First Contact was the separation point appeals to me. They interfered like crazy in that film.

 

[Tosk]

The idea that First Contact was the separation point appeals to me. They interfered like crazy in that film.

These days, same. I don't know if it all makes sense, but I kind of dig the idea.

 

[F. King Daniel]

@Everyone

Just to clear something up, not everyone has suggested the Kelvin exists in both timelines - Simon Pegg famously opined when writing Star Trek: Beyond that the quantum singularity had caused changes back throughout history, perhaps appearing at various junctures going back thousands of years, making the Kelvin verse a genuinely new parallel universe - this was also the attitude taken by Mike Okuda for the latest encyclopedia unless I'm mistaken.

This of course doesn't clear the issue up, but it's worth mentioning because a few people have said that the Kelvin definatly exists in both universes - actually, as usual, we just don't know, until one appears on screen in the Prime Timeline.

Indeed, and I'm pretty sure the entire reason for the change in attitude is separate creative teams furthering their own versions of Trek's 23rd century. If the timelines are entirely separate, Bad Robot and the DSC writer's room don't have to worry about stepping on each other's toes.

 

[cultcross]

These days, same. I don't know if it all makes sense, but I kind of dig the idea.

Oh I'm sure it's riddled with holes if you look closely but you have a scenario where Cochrane, a genius level engineer/inventor is exposed to a team of engineers from three hundred years into his future, sees technology like phasers, tricorders, PADDS and artificial eyes, sees the Enterprise from the outside, and learns about the Federation and the path ahead. Lily meanwhile actually goes on board a 24th century starship and spends quite some time wandering the halls, observing the technology, uniforms, the Delta logo everywhere, weapons, meets a Klingon, sees the design lineage of all the Enterprises in model form, learns about the philosophy of twenty fourth century life, and potentially could have snuck the odd keepsake back with her. Between them, they could have changed the future dramatically with that knowledge and exposure.

While it slightly wrecks the jeopardy in my favourite Trek movie, it certainly sits better with me as a point of divergence than the destruction of the Kelvin.

 

[Tosk]

And I like that by having Cochrane guest in the ENT pilot, it helps me pretend that he had influence over the naming of the ship.

I assume that it wasn't until the Enterprise actually goes back to the future and the Vulcans arrive that the inspiration to live differently occurs to Cochrane and/or Lily. (So that the Enteprise can go back to "our" original future.)

Clearly the Vulcan landing is a point of convergence, because we also get the Mirror Universe out of that moment too.

 

[Jayson1]

I have a question.. We have spent tons of time talking about the sets,visual look,uniforms and the look of the Klingons but aren't we forgetting something?
How important is it for the aliens to act like the aliens of the prime universe and for starfleet to feel like it's part of the starfleet in the prime universe?
If the klingons are presented as nothing more than being a bunch of monsters and things like honor and the whole Viking thing is replaced isn't that a bigger change than even the makeup? What if Starfleet is a "Peacekeeping Armada" and Federation is treated as nothing more than a Trade Alliance wouldn't this stuff make it impossible for the show to fit into the Prime universe even more so than the sets,uniforms etc?

Jason

 

[cultcross]

So that the Enteprise can go back to "our" original future.

Well all that's required there is that the time portal, by virtue of being a copy of what the Borg generated in Prime sector 001, takes them back to the future of the timeline they left, rather than the timeline they're currently in. It has a multiverse element, if you like. That actually also helps to explain the reason the Enterprise and Borg sphere still exist if the future that led to them going back in time is destroyed (grandfather paradox), and a little better than the 'wibbly wobbly timey whimey' line we actually get in the film. If you think of First Contact as occurring in a multiverse it makes a lot more sense. The only flaw in my lovely theory is the fact they see an assimilated Earth in the prime timeline before going back in time. Ok, that's not the only flaw. But i like the theory dammit!

 

[jamestyler]

If the klingons are presented as nothing more than being a bunch of monsters and things like honor and the whole Viking thing is replaced isn't that a bigger change than even the makeup?

This is a moo point. And a weird idea at this point. From the trailer we see shades of their TNG era representation - the screams to skies were a common trend.

Add to that most of the Klingons that have been announced are leaders with the latest batch potentially being council members and we know T'Kumva wants to reunite the houses. That sounds very traditionally (for the TNG era, anyway) Klingon. Politics, honour, factions...

Absolutely nothing suggests that Klingons are going to be much different from the ones we're used to in anything other than look. Everything suggests the status quo.

 

[Andrews]

I'd rather they just added it to the movie continuity. Nothing wrong with that. They could have easily made a modern feeling classic Trek look, but it feels like movie Trek. That said, I'm sad we're moving more away from the Trek we all love.

 

[Jayson1]

This is a moo point. And a weird idea at this point. From the trailer we see shades of their TNG era representation - the screams to skies were a common trend.

Add to that most of the Klingons that have been announced are leaders with the latest batch potentially being council members and we know T'Kumva wants to reunite the houses. That sounds very traditionally (for the TNG era, anyway) Klingon. Politics, honour, factions...

Absolutely nothing suggests that Klingons are going to be much different from the ones we're used to in anything other than look. Everything suggests the status quo.

The stuff about the reuniting the houses does sound good. I had't heard that info so that is some relief. As for the yelling to the sky I noticed the connection but you got to admit that can play in different ways and it is hard to form a opinion on that when you hear it out of context. It could be a warrior scream because a fellow warrior has died or it could just be scary yelling for no good reason. I think what the big concern is are these guys going to be smart warriors who are capable of Shakesperian style of melodrama or just dumb brutes with all the substance of the Remans.

Jason

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Dude, I cannot be the only person who thinks that the nuTrek movies aren't just mindless action. There's so much awesome character growth going on in there, there's a bunch of nice themes...I really love them.

Well, me and Chris Stuckmann, anyway. XD

 

[Jayson1]

Dude, I cannot be the only person who thinks that the nuTrek movies aren't just mindless action. There's so much awesome character growth going on in there, there's a bunch of nice themes...I really love them.

Well, me and Chris Stuckmann, anyway. XD

I love them to but I think the mindless action label is kind of acurate. It makes up for it through strong charactization and humor. Humor is very underated because it's actually funny. Trek always needs more humor and they understood this.
Jason