Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[TonyC]

I look back in on this thread and am amazed to see people still claiming it can not be prime because it does not look dated. Trek has had its visuals rebooted twice. A 3rd time has zero effect on the story or events, just in how we, the viewers see them unfold.

But there IS a way it can look Prime and still look Kelvin-ish. JJ did it with the uniforms in the Trek films. They weren't 100% TOS, but they were close enough to still show older fans, that 'hey, these are Starfleet uniforms.'
(The time before the Kelvin attack, those were...debateable.)

The Enterprise..looked (I use the term loosely) like the Enterprise of the Prime era..to a point. We still knew it was Enterprise.
(At least the exterior was, the bridge, well if I can't say something nice, better to close my mouth lol)

IMHO, Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues show that the TOS look can work, even if done just to invoke the spirit of pre-TOS/TOS prime.

I want story and characters to be well written as well as others do, but is it asking so much to tweak a few things?

 

[Mudd]

IMHO, Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues show that the TOS look can work, even if done just to invoke the spirit of pre-TOS/TOS prime.

No, they don't.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

But there IS a way it can look Prime and still look Kelvin-ish. JJ did it with the uniforms in the Trek films. They weren't 100% TOS, but they were close enough to still show older fans, that 'hey, these are Starfleet uniforms.'
(The time before the Kelvin attack, those were...debateable.)

The Enterprise..looked (I use the term loosely) like the Enterprise of the Prime era..to a point. We still knew it was Enterprise.
(At least the exterior was, the bridge, well if I can't say something nice, better to close my mouth lol)

IMHO, Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues show that the TOS look can work, even if done just to invoke the spirit of pre-TOS/TOS prime.

I want story and characters to be well written as well as others do, but is it asking so much to tweak a few things?

Yet, it really didn't work for anything but a touch stone. They keep changing uniforms in the movie. I do not think they worked or looked good, better than TOS for sure, but then most things are. I am totally glad they ditched that look

 

[JD]

Actually, yes we are. Harry was duplicated, so therefore both resulting versions of the character had an absolutely identical history before that.

Yeah, while technically it is a different version, sort of, it doesn't really count for what I was talking about since he was the same character before the episode. I was talking about characters either with altered histories or from very different alternate realities.

IMHO, Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues show that the TOS look can work, even if done just to invoke the spirit of pre-TOS/TOS prime.

I want story and characters to be well written as well as others do, but is it asking so much to tweak a few things?

No, they don't.

I'm with at @Serveaux aux here, the only reason they "work" on Phased 2 and Continues is because they are nostalgia fueled micro budget internet fan films. There's no way they could do that in a modern day big budget prestige series. You have to remember they aren't making this for just the fans, so they are going to want to interesting modern visuals to keep from chasing off the non-fans who would probably be scared off by something that looks a looks to much like it was designed in the '60s, and pretty much everything about TOS screams THIS WAS MADE IN THE '60S.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Is Discovery really set in the Kelvin timeline?

If so, it's probably for the best. Keep things in line with the current film series.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Is Discovery really set in the Kelvin timeline?

If so, it's probably for the best. Keep things in line with the current film series.

The Studio says no, it is prime timeline.

 

[Lance]

But there IS a way it can look Prime and still look Kelvin-ish. JJ did it with the uniforms in the Trek films. They weren't 100% TOS, but they were close enough to still show older fans, that 'hey, these are Starfleet uniforms.'
(The time before the Kelvin attack, those were...debateable.)

I'd probably find it a lot easier to rationalize the 'Discovery' production design being modernized, as nobody was ever going to make a show with sets and uniforms replicating those seen in the sixties. But it's actually the Klingon redesign (so closely aping that seen in the Kelvin films) that I find a little harder to take. I'm not usually someone who quibbles over these kinds of pointless details too much, life's too short for that. But I can see myself finding accepting that change to be just a little bit too far in my mind, and I'll probably end up seeing 'Discovery' as a prequel to the Kelvin films, rather than a prequel to TOS, just because anything else would probably bug me too much in the long run.

That's not to mean I'd have expected them to use bare-headed Klingons with racist blackface and Fu-Manchu beards. But like in 'Enterprise' before it, something in the vein of the TNG Klingons or even the subtlety different TMP Klingons with their spiney-spines might have been acceptable. Those 'Discovery' Klingons are just too much like the ones in the Kelvin-verse for me to overlook it. (Although, funnily enough, both the 'Discovery' and 'Kelvin' Klingons seem to bare some similarity to the pre-evolved Worf from TNG episode "Genesis".) Are they meant simply to be yet another strain/race of Klingons we've never saw before?

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Are they meant simply to be yet another strain/race of Klingons we've never saw before?

This has been something thrown around. It also could be inbreeding or some kind of genetic tinkering.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Are they meant simply to be yet another strain/race of Klingons we've never saw before?

We've only see two "strains" of Klingon, bumpy and smooth. Neither one has been treated as never seen.

 

[captainkirk]

Must have seen a different version

As for Rengeneration, exactly when would Archer ask them? And let's face it, the Borg aren't exactly known for their conversation skills. It was Guinan who tells Picard their name

More like I haven't watched them in a long time. But, "Who we are is unimportant." Is a terrible way of avoiding using their name. As for the Borg, they always announce who they are. In Regeneration they skip straight to, "You will be assimilated."

 

[Nerys Myk]

More like I haven't watched them in a long time. But, "Who we are is unimportant." Is a terrible way of avoiding using their name. As for the Borg, they always announce who they are. In Regeneration they skip straight to, "You will be assimilated."

It would be in keeping with the Ferengi being secretive as established in The Last Outpost and The Battle
They didn't in Q Who? and Best of Both Worlds.

 

[captainkirk]

They didn't in Q Who? and Best of Both Worlds.

But these were First Contact Borg.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

With the borg we see exsamples of canon changing. If you guys,recall they were not suppose to care about anything but technology. That changed

 

[Lance]

Are they meant simply to be yet another strain/race of Klingons we've never saw before?

We've only see two "strains" of Klingon, bumpy and smooth. Neither one has been treated as never seen.

I like that we can now basically categorize Klingons in the same way we categorize peanut butter.

So what is the idea supposed to be? That these are simply the standard level 'bumpy' Klingons, just with more detailed makeup than they used 20+ years ago? Because I'm afraid that I would find it very hard to retcon the idea in my head that Worf 'really' looked like these buggers all along, rather than looking like a regular dude with a cool crinkle-cut forehead.

I can just about accept Mirror Mirror's suggestion that it's more genetic engineering, given we've seen that become actual story fodder/canon thanks to Deep Space Nine and Enterprise. But for me to accept that, it needs to be a) stated clearly on screen that this is what they are, and b) the new Klingons ideally need to be seen alongside the old Klingons to help "sell" the idea.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Is Discovery really set in the Kelvin timeline?

If so, it's probably for the best. Keep things in line with the current film series.

The Studio says no, it is prime timeline.

Besides the show's producers, it's also the lawyers that say no. It's not set in the Paramount/Bad Robot timeline but in the CBS timeline.

And DSC might not look like a prequel/contemporary to TOS but it definitely looks like a sequel to ENT, so...

Finally, these might be Ancient Klingons and that's why they look a lot like "Neanderthal" Klingon Worf.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So what is the idea supposed to be? That these are simply the standard level 'bumpy' Klingons, just with more detailed makeup than they used 20+ years ago? Because I'm afraid that I would find it very hard to retcon the idea in my head that Worf 'really' looked like these buggers all along, rather than looking like a regular dude with a cool crinkle-cut forehead.

Yup, same as when the Bumpies showed up in TMP. That's how they always looked. (Then DS9 threw a spanner in the works)

 

[cultcross]

Besides the show's producers, it's also the lawyers that say no. It's not set in the Paramount/Bad Robot timeline but in the CBS timeline.

I think the fans are way overselling this aspect. It's one intellectual property, with different people making different products.
It's simply easier for them not to set the show in the movie timeline so they don't have to worry about movie content either now or in the future. They're not making a shared universe (probably the only studio that aren't at this point...)

 

[Nerys Myk]

They're not making a shared universe (probably the only studio that aren't at this point...)

Rebels and upstarts.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I honestly always preferred the FASA explanation for things. The Klingons have a vast empire that spans hundreds, possibly thousands of worlds. It's just as likely as there are multiple species variants that exist under the umbrella term "Klingons", much as there were countless ethnicities and nationalities that fell under the greater term "Romans" in ancient times. So there could very well be different-looking bumpy-headed Klingons, some extremely pronounced, some not so much (like General Chang), to none at all, and all with a great variety of skin tones and facial hair usages and cultural traditions. There could also be hybrids between other rival empires (Klingon/Romulan, Klingon/Human), who were assigned to border duty near those other factions, which is why more "human" looking Klingons were always seen interacting with Starfleet during TOS and the more bumpy-headed "Imperial"-race Klingons pulling the strings closer to their homeworld, hardly seen, adding to their mysteriousness. These new Klingons being introduced in Discovery would just be another splinter subset of the greater Klingon species, and they could keep doing it using that rationale, keeping the showrunners' hands free to come up with new and interesting ideas - still canon, but more flexibility.

Space Battleship Yamato 2199 used this very theory to explain why some Gamilons have blue skin and others look more human. They all call themselves "Gamilons", but some come from imperial member worlds that are not considered "pureblood Gamilon" and have a lesser social standing. Trek really should have adopted this method to avoid all kinds of problems. Honestly, IMO, this would have tons more sense to go this route than introduce the whole convoluted Augment virus thing.

Unfortunately, as cool as DS9's "Blood Oath" and "Trials and Treibblations" were as episodes, they painted canon into a corner with Klingons that forced the fans to ask "WTF?" and demand an explanation.

But, it is what is now, so...

 

[BillJ]

Space Battleship Yamato 2199 used this very theory to explain why some Gamilons have blue skin and others look more human. They all call themselves "Gamilons", but some come from imperial member worlds that are not considered "pureblood Gamilon" and have a lesser social standing.

I was going to bring this up as I was just watching Yamato last night.