Kelvin Klingons

[The Wormhole]

Or in DS9 for why Ferenginar is always rainy?

That was explained quite a few times.

 

[fireproof78]

They don't have to do what they did in TOS, just be sort of who they were, character-wise. How did Nero's incursion affect them personally, if at all, or what events are they now a part of that only happened after the incursion?

Again, interesting story development, and I would enjoy it. But, it doesn't "deserve" to be told, at least in my view.

I would like to see more of the Kelvin universe and the consequences of Nero's incursion. I certainly see a lot of potential and to explore this universe, and personally wouldn't mind seeing what the fallout of the discovery of the Vengeance would be.

 

[Timo]

Should there be fallout? A starship crashes; that it happens to be a black project is sort of incidental and unlikely to interest folks much.

One wonders how often starship crashes happen on Earth. Not only does this timeline suggest an ability to routinely operate inside the atmosphere, or a tendency to perform at least that one sortie (initial launch) from surface to orbit, there's also the evidence from earlier Trek that ships in "orbit" (probably futurospeak for hovering, considering) will drop like flies if losing power. Heck, even a random interstellar approach led to a near-crash in "Tomorrow is Yesterday". Perhaps this is why the skylines of major cities are so inconsistent in Trek...?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

Should there be fallout? A starship crashes; that it happens to be a black project is sort of incidental and unlikely to interest folks much.

One wonders how often starship crashes happen on Earth. Not only does this timeline suggest an ability to routinely operate inside the atmosphere, or a tendency to perform at least that one sortie (initial launch) from surface to orbit, there's also the evidence from earlier Trek that ships in "orbit" (probably futurospeak for hovering, considering) will drop like flies if losing power. Heck, even a random interstellar approach led to a near-crash in "Tomorrow is Yesterday". Perhaps this is why the skylines of major cities are so inconsistent in Trek...?

Timo Saloniemi

Given the lack of hand rails and exploding consoles, perhaps the red lights on top of tall buildings to warn aircraft have fallen by the wayside.

I doubt that average Federation citizen would be interested in the crash. I was more interested in the political fallout between the Federation and the Klingons. Again, that's my personal interest, because I would like to see some different facets of that relationship. One of the few times I'm wishing we saw more Klingons.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I doubt that average Federation citizen would be interested in the crash

How often do big starships crash into Earth cities in 2250s AR?

OT, just wondering; does your username come from the movie "Fireproof"? https://www.fireproofthemovie.com/redirect.html

 

[Timo]

I doubt that average Federation citizen would be interested in the crash. I was more interested in the political fallout between the Federation and the Klingons. Again, that's my personal interest, because I would like to see some different facets of that relationship. One of the few times I'm wishing we saw more Klingons.

Agreed. I just don't quite see how "discovery of the Vengeance" would tie to this, as the Klingons did not discover the Vengeance as far as we know.

OTOH, if they do have a spy network going, they probably knew about that ship already. After all, she's not that black, what with the desktop model and all. Just a need-to-know project, possibly with several vessels already completed because Marcus felt so prepared to launch his war.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

How often do big starships crash into Earth cities in 2250s AR?

OT, just wondering; does your username come from the movie "Fireproof"? https://www.fireproofthemovie.com/redirect.html

Not directly. It more refers to this song, by PIllar, and this verse. However, that is one of my favorite movies of all time.

Agreed. I just don't quite see how "discovery of the Vengeance" would tie to this, as the Klingons did not discover the Vengeance as far as we know.

OTOH, if they do have a spy network going, they probably knew about that ship already. After all, she's not that black, what with the desktop model and all. Just a need-to-know project, possibly with several vessels already completed because Marcus felt so prepared to launch his war.

Timo Saloniemi

It's not the Klingons knowing about the Vengeance but the very militaristic stance that Marcus was taking in provoking the Klingons.

 

[Timo]

The movie takes steps of sort to address the issue already: Kirk and peace prevailed where Marcus and war lost, because the final scene explicitly happens one year later and there's no sign of Klingon aggression there.

Supposedly, the villain was right in his assessment that the Klingons would only go to war if a Starfleet ship rained death on their very homeworld, or was caught trying to do so. And thanks to Kirk's moderating tactics, neither of these happened.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

The movie takes steps of sort to address the issue already: Kirk and peace prevailed where Marcus and war lost, because the final scene explicitly happens one year later and there's no sign of Klingon aggression there.

Supposedly, the villain was right in his assessment that the Klingons would only go to war if a Starfleet ship rained death on their very homeworld, or was caught trying to do so. And thanks to Kirk's moderating tactics, neither of these happened.

Timo Saloniemi

That's a great point. In my opinion, ending the film that way was a much more interesting way.

As I said, I just would like to see more Klingons in this universe

 

[Smellmet]

I loved the look of them. Hated the ships though.

 

[E.M. Ericson]

Well, they provided a nice contrast to the crying Starfleet officers throughout the film.

 

[gerbil]

Watching the movie doesn't help there, because the alleged event was not seen. As it appears crucial for Nero's plans, our two options here seem to be

1) thinking Nero did it and
2) thinking Nero faked it.

The former assumes Nero could swat 47 Klingon ships. Why, then, does he appear so weak in the movie, succumbing to handgun fire over Vulcan and a single shuttlecraft over Earth? The latter assumes Nero needed to even the odds, and achieved that by luring Starfleet to Laurentius to fight phantoms. After all, this was his modus operandi: he sent fake messages in the name of Vulcan (there was no seismic activity yet when the message went out).

Apart from that, though, why should the loss of 47 ships reduce the odds of the Klingons going to war? The 2009 movie showed that the very real loss of nine Starfleet ships left Earth defenseless in an exceptional situation; it did not establish that either nine or 47 ships would be a significant number for waging war.

Alex Marcus would know about the ships lost anyway. He still thought the Klingons were a threat best negated by goading them into attacking, not by striking them when they were seriously handicapped.

Timo Saloniemi

You're wildly overthinking this. Nero destroyed a chunk of the Klingon fleet and a huge chunk of Starfleet. There's no reason for subterfuge or confusion. The circumstances leading to the drill being sabotaged were quite extraordinary and Nero's obsession with Spock was used to goad him into a trap. It's not quite as simple as "gunfire" and "single shuttle."

 

[Mage]

I think the re-imagination of the Klingons was perfectly handled in STID. Some updates to the looks of both the species, outfits and ships. Qo'nos looked good. But they were still so very much Klingon.

I think it's good changes like this are done sometimes. Same old same old everyday gets boring. Like, really really boring.

 

[Timo]

You're wildly overthinking this. Nero destroyed a chunk of the Klingon fleet and a huge chunk of Starfleet. There's no reason for subterfuge or confusion.

But there is - Nero is flying a fragile civilian ship with ineffective (makeshift?) weaponry, and twice loses a fight to a solo starship (first the Kelvin, then the Enterprise). Flashy special effects may confuse the issue, but Nero's defeat in practical terms is pretty clear: both times, he desperately "fires everything" and still fails to either destroy the opponent or even to stop him from achieving his tactical goals. So he needs every help we can give him if he's to defeat those armadas of ships!

The circumstances leading to the drill being sabotaged were quite extraordinary and Nero's obsession with Spock was used to goad him into a trap. It's not quite as simple as "gunfire" and "single shuttle."

But it is. Nothing about traps or circumstances made any difference there: the drill was destroyed twice, first with handguns and then with shuttlecraft guns.

If we want to argue that Nero's ship would have been more resilient to damage in different circumstances, then we have to describe such circumstances. Nero was engaging in crucially important offensive action in both cases - the most important thing in his life, an action he had been obsessively planning for a quarter of a century. Why would he not have his full defenses up?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

Since it's a mining ship, then I would imagine that the differences of the stresses it would face.

I think Nero's ship does better when it has the element of surprise.

I think the re-imagination of the Klingons was perfectly handled in STID. Some updates to the looks of both the species, outfits and ships. Qo'nos looked good. But they were still so very much Klingon.

I think it's good changes like this are done sometimes. Same old same old everyday gets boring. Like, really really boring.

See TMP as a prime example.

 

[Saul]

Did you like the look of the Kelvinverse Klingons?
Their ships?
Their planet?
Their attitudes?

Yes on all counts. They were back to being guys you don't fu*k with.
Planet looked great, exploded moon sticking out the ass end of the planet seems like a cool place for these guys to live.
Ships. Not overly hot. I liked the concept art of the bird of prey drop ship. Tiny little ships in the wings would have been cool.
As aliens I kinda liked that they don't have a main character representing them. It makes them a bit of a force to be reckoned with like the borg.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I think the re-imagination of the Klingons was perfectly handled in STID. Some updates to the looks of both the species, outfits and ships.

Perhaps their treatment for the augment virus went through different stages since 2233?

And since none of the Klingons we saw there were named, there's no reason one of them may not be our familiar old TOS foes, I suppose...