Kelvin Klingons
- Thread starter Shinzon4u
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I didn't mind the Klingons at all in STID. Really, as a species, they look pretty much the same, minus hair.
In fact, I believe the Klingon Leader was Tony Todd, if I am not mistaken.
But the thing that does bother me is no back story. Why is Praxis a ruin? Why is Qu'o'nos devastated? Why the Spartan helmets and trench coats? Are they bald because of radiation sickness? Those points need addressing and I don't feel I should have to turn to comics or novels to find out.
In fact, I believe the Klingon Leader was Tony Todd, if I am not mistaken.
But the thing that does bother me is no back story. Why is Praxis a ruin? Why is Qu'o'nos devastated? Why the Spartan helmets and trench coats? Are they bald because of radiation sickness? Those points need addressing and I don't feel I should have to turn to comics or novels to find out.
I was totally fine with the Kelvin Klingons. Never really got this "they look totally different" complaint.
You are mistaken.
Only one is bald.
I thought the Klingons were among one of the best additions in the Kelvin universe, and really wish we had seen more of them. The Klingon sequence in ST ID is among my favorites, and the lead Klingon lines up just fine as far as appearance and demeanor with the rest.
I personally appreciated the total lack of exposition as regarded the Ketha Province devastation or the cloud of rubble next to the planet. We can derive interpretations from that other universe, smiling knowingly and silently forming words like "Praxis" with our lips. Or then we can assume something far weirder is going on here.
The mystery also helps us understand, or at least attempt to understand, why Admiral Marcus' great plan misfired so badly. Kirk did offend the Klingons, yet there was no war. How come? Rather than assume Klingons are wussies, we can speculate on special circumstances where the fierce warriors, factually ready and eager to go to war with the UFP on a moment's notice, fail to get the news of Kirk's invasion. Kirk intercepted by "renegades" or a "faction" specific to Ketha? Communications being blocked by the nature of the ruins, or ignored exactly because emanating from there? Khan and the(se particular) Klingons actually being in a complex relationship we learn nothing about?
Timo Saloniemi
The mystery also helps us understand, or at least attempt to understand, why Admiral Marcus' great plan misfired so badly. Kirk did offend the Klingons, yet there was no war. How come? Rather than assume Klingons are wussies, we can speculate on special circumstances where the fierce warriors, factually ready and eager to go to war with the UFP on a moment's notice, fail to get the news of Kirk's invasion. Kirk intercepted by "renegades" or a "faction" specific to Ketha? Communications being blocked by the nature of the ruins, or ignored exactly because emanating from there? Khan and the(se particular) Klingons actually being in a complex relationship we learn nothing about?
Timo Saloniemi
Hated the look of them.
Loved the look of them, the uniforms and the ships. Really liked the mid-Praxis apocalypse thing that was going on.
Wasn't so crazy about the "machine city" look of Kronos, it didn't quite ring true with how I imagine their world.
Wasn't so crazy about the "machine city" look of Kronos, it didn't quite ring true with how I imagine their world.
It's the same with way too much of the JJverse. Explanations may well be possible but aren't given. You just have to assume things.
It's poor and lazy storytelling.
Seeing the Klingons in STID was really a highlight for me.
I liked their updated look. It really made them menacing again.
Since the Klingons always were considered to be Trek’s equivalent of the Sovjets, I guess those massive ugly buildings somehow made sense. A heavily industrialized society, built for war and conquest.
I liked their updated look. It really made them menacing again.
Since the Klingons always were considered to be Trek’s equivalent of the Sovjets, I guess those massive ugly buildings somehow made sense. A heavily industrialized society, built for war and conquest.
It was the same way in TOS, my favorite series (I don't need things spoonfed to me). The lack of explanation can spark the imagination.
How much explanation was there in TOS for why Vulcan seems to be all desert? Or in TNG for why Romulus is all grey? Or in DS9 for why Ferenginar is always rainy?
Exactly so. There was so much in TOS that wasn't explained that I just had to imagine and explore on my own.
For me, it seems that the Klingons had a role that a new race could have just as easily filled, plot wise. Aside from the fact that they couldn't just waltz into Klingon space in the Enterprise, which set up the K'normian ship moments, you could have made up new aliens. If you wanted to have Kelvin Kirk vs Klingons, they kind of deserve better, being TOS Kirk's chief nemeses. They did some IDW comic stories vs Klingons, of course, but honestly?
What if instead of Cumberkhan, we'd had Kor and Koloth fighting Kirk and company?
What if instead of Cumberkhan, we'd had Kor and Koloth fighting Kirk and company?
Watch ST09 Nero destroyed about 40 Klingon ships,
Watching the movie doesn't help there, because the alleged event was not seen. As it appears crucial for Nero's plans, our two options here seem to be
1) thinking Nero did it and
2) thinking Nero faked it.
The former assumes Nero could swat 47 Klingon ships. Why, then, does he appear so weak in the movie, succumbing to handgun fire over Vulcan and a single shuttlecraft over Earth? The latter assumes Nero needed to even the odds, and achieved that by luring Starfleet to Laurentius to fight phantoms. After all, this was his modus operandi: he sent fake messages in the name of Vulcan (there was no seismic activity yet when the message went out).
Apart from that, though, why should the loss of 47 ships reduce the odds of the Klingons going to war? The 2009 movie showed that the very real loss of nine Starfleet ships left Earth defenseless in an exceptional situation; it did not establish that either nine or 47 ships would be a significant number for waging war.
Alex Marcus would know about the ships lost anyway. He still thought the Klingons were a threat best negated by goading them into attacking, not by striking them when they were seriously handicapped.
Timo Saloniemi
1) thinking Nero did it and
2) thinking Nero faked it.
The former assumes Nero could swat 47 Klingon ships. Why, then, does he appear so weak in the movie, succumbing to handgun fire over Vulcan and a single shuttlecraft over Earth? The latter assumes Nero needed to even the odds, and achieved that by luring Starfleet to Laurentius to fight phantoms. After all, this was his modus operandi: he sent fake messages in the name of Vulcan (there was no seismic activity yet when the message went out).
Apart from that, though, why should the loss of 47 ships reduce the odds of the Klingons going to war? The 2009 movie showed that the very real loss of nine Starfleet ships left Earth defenseless in an exceptional situation; it did not establish that either nine or 47 ships would be a significant number for waging war.
Alex Marcus would know about the ships lost anyway. He still thought the Klingons were a threat best negated by goading them into attacking, not by striking them when they were seriously handicapped.
Timo Saloniemi
I don't think they needed to make new aliens, nor do I think that the Klingons "deserved" better simply becaue they were Kirk's nemesis. By that logic, Cumberkahn was the best choice because he "deserved" another shot being Kirk's nemesis in the films.
However, I do agree that having Kor and Koloth fighting Kirk would have made a great film.
Also, it could stand to reason that, in light of Nero's attack, the Klingons were still ramping up production on war machines, much like Marcus was doing.
In a film about Kirk (whatever the incarnation)? Yeah, it'd be nice to see them be more than nameless Klingon with no development.
But, one of the main complaints against ST ID is that it rehashed TWOK. For me, it didn't and was distinct enough to be its own story. That said, I can see the valid complaints that bringing up Kor and Koloth would it feels like a rehash rather than its own distinct story.
So, I agree about wanting to see more development, but I disagree that they "deserve" more development.
They don't have to do what they did in TOS, just be sort of who they were, character-wise. How did Nero's incursion affect them personally, if at all, or what events are they now a part of that only happened after the incursion?
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