My point exactly. His character only became interesting at the end of the film. Up to that point he just wasn't compelling enough.
Karl Urban still knows nothing about Star Trek 4 as Paramount fills out summer 2019 slate.
- Thread starter PixelMagic
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My point exactly. His character only became interesting at the end of the film. Up to that point he just wasn't compelling enough.
I would have liked to have seen more about him. Balthazar Edison sounded interesting
I'm all for this. TMP was very much a flight of fancy for Robert Wise who was seen as a venerable auteur who could imbute the franchise with Oscar level respectability. It could be approached sort of like that.
The problem is that it will still be Star Trek, with all the baggage, preconceptions and expectations which come with that.
If an auteur has a true vision for a sci-fi film, they'd be a lot better off with an original IP than tacking it on to Trek.
If Tarantino wants to do Star Trek, they absolutely should let him. I am not at all convinced that I'd like it, but I sure as hell would want to see it!
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Tarantino directing these movies is like Mickey Mouse directing '2001 space odyssey' or 'kill bill'. How about no?
Tarantino's ideas for a sequel that wouldnt be a sequel also suck, frankly. Nothing exciting, and it's even less original than stid and beyond combined.
I guess if paramount wants to definitely alienate reboot fans and jump the shark, hire Tarantino (or Woody Allen, since we are at it. If Tarantino is a good fitting choice, anyone will be, I guess..)
About Krall,
Tbh, I'm still disappointed that he wasn't a native of Altamid. I was all excited about the idea of seeing a new planet with a new species, and new culture. They originally presented the character as having this totally different vision and reasons why he was against Starfleet that were related to his people..so I imagined he was the leader of an alien species that *needed* Starfleet to not interfere with them and could never fit with others.
Maybe kirk&Co had made the mistake of accidentally invading their world and would face the consequences of that.
I thought it would be interesting because I honestly feel it's too easy as an idea that almost every planet with intelligent life would agree with Starfleet and co-exist with other species peacefully. There are surely planets with aliens that are just too different to fit into mainly humanoid Starfleet. Trek does have examples of conflicts sure, but it would be more realistic for me to have more of that still.
However, since they spoiled krall's identity and the big plot twist during promotion, I too would've liked it more if he had turned back to his face sooner (which is horrible though because in order to do that he'd suck the life of several human crew members, which he did anyway in the end. Uhura and Sulu and the others will be scarred for life, what they saw was horrifying ), or they had Uhura reveal his identity sooner and they showed flashbacks of him.
I understood Nero (fav villain) and Khan's motives more because they showed them a bit more.
Also, for me it was a mistake to have only Sulu and Uhura at the base (of the big 7). They should've put more of them there to make things more tense and dramatic (including, perhaps, a failed rescue attempt that only resulted in Krall capturing Kirk or Spock too). Uhura and Sulu were wasted in spite of, ironically, being the only characters who could truly see the base and interact with the villain. I liked Uhura's role and face time with him, but I hoped to discover more about the villain (s) and Altamid. That interested me more than all the transition scenes with Scotty and the franklin. Pegg gave himself more screentime.
It's the first movie where Spock doesn't interact with the villain also (though I remember Elba being all excited about his interactions with spock? Was he teasing, or they cut the scenes?), which for someone the original creative team had intended to be co-protagonist is weird and a downgrade to supporting role. But then, again, he spent most of the movie injured and literally stuck with Mccoy for the purpose of getting used as a tos homage, and placate those who complained about Mccoy getting less screentime in the first movies (compared to what? He got around the same screentime DeForest would get in the old movies) Even when they get on the franklin and then the group is finally reunited, Spock hardly, if any, gets real chances to interact with other characters and it sucks. I can forgive the team for wasting Krall, but not for wasting Spock (honestly, I got the feeling Lin didn't care about him as an individual with a life outside of his "logical dude" role in the old trio that much. He didn't even really talk about his conflict, only Kirk's)
This team seemed to think the kirk/spock bromance was forced in the other movies and they needed to step away from it a bit, but honestly, they made the same mistake they projected on the other team with the spock/mccoy dynamic. This ostensibly finding pretexts to make them a team (even at the cost of going against the role Mccoy is supposed to have during crisis especially. He's no action hero) made that dynamic no less forced than the other team did with k/s in stid. In both cases, there was an attempt to reassure old fans that some dynamics are the same (when they aren't) through giving to them more screentime and interactions as if the audience needed to get constantly reminded and placated.
Tarantino's ideas for a sequel that wouldnt be a sequel also suck, frankly. Nothing exciting, and it's even less original than stid and beyond combined.
I guess if paramount wants to definitely alienate reboot fans and jump the shark, hire Tarantino (or Woody Allen, since we are at it. If Tarantino is a good fitting choice, anyone will be, I guess..)
About Krall,
Tbh, I'm still disappointed that he wasn't a native of Altamid. I was all excited about the idea of seeing a new planet with a new species, and new culture. They originally presented the character as having this totally different vision and reasons why he was against Starfleet that were related to his people..so I imagined he was the leader of an alien species that *needed* Starfleet to not interfere with them and could never fit with others.
Maybe kirk&Co had made the mistake of accidentally invading their world and would face the consequences of that.
I thought it would be interesting because I honestly feel it's too easy as an idea that almost every planet with intelligent life would agree with Starfleet and co-exist with other species peacefully. There are surely planets with aliens that are just too different to fit into mainly humanoid Starfleet. Trek does have examples of conflicts sure, but it would be more realistic for me to have more of that still.
However, since they spoiled krall's identity and the big plot twist during promotion, I too would've liked it more if he had turned back to his face sooner (which is horrible though because in order to do that he'd suck the life of several human crew members, which he did anyway in the end. Uhura and Sulu and the others will be scarred for life, what they saw was horrifying ), or they had Uhura reveal his identity sooner and they showed flashbacks of him.
I understood Nero (fav villain) and Khan's motives more because they showed them a bit more.
Also, for me it was a mistake to have only Sulu and Uhura at the base (of the big 7). They should've put more of them there to make things more tense and dramatic (including, perhaps, a failed rescue attempt that only resulted in Krall capturing Kirk or Spock too). Uhura and Sulu were wasted in spite of, ironically, being the only characters who could truly see the base and interact with the villain. I liked Uhura's role and face time with him, but I hoped to discover more about the villain (s) and Altamid. That interested me more than all the transition scenes with Scotty and the franklin. Pegg gave himself more screentime.
It's the first movie where Spock doesn't interact with the villain also (though I remember Elba being all excited about his interactions with spock? Was he teasing, or they cut the scenes?), which for someone the original creative team had intended to be co-protagonist is weird and a downgrade to supporting role. But then, again, he spent most of the movie injured and literally stuck with Mccoy for the purpose of getting used as a tos homage, and placate those who complained about Mccoy getting less screentime in the first movies (compared to what? He got around the same screentime DeForest would get in the old movies) Even when they get on the franklin and then the group is finally reunited, Spock hardly, if any, gets real chances to interact with other characters and it sucks. I can forgive the team for wasting Krall, but not for wasting Spock (honestly, I got the feeling Lin didn't care about him as an individual with a life outside of his "logical dude" role in the old trio that much. He didn't even really talk about his conflict, only Kirk's)
This team seemed to think the kirk/spock bromance was forced in the other movies and they needed to step away from it a bit, but honestly, they made the same mistake they projected on the other team with the spock/mccoy dynamic. This ostensibly finding pretexts to make them a team (even at the cost of going against the role Mccoy is supposed to have during crisis especially. He's no action hero) made that dynamic no less forced than the other team did with k/s in stid. In both cases, there was an attempt to reassure old fans that some dynamics are the same (when they aren't) through giving to them more screentime and interactions as if the audience needed to get constantly reminded and placated.
a part of me has almost given up on this trek and paramount, once again they continue to blow it in my opinion.
Tarantino directing trek will be as much of a big splash in the media as JJ directing star wars , maybe even bigger because not only is Tarantino more talented , well known, and a better writer than JJ, he has been a long time fan of trek unlike jj who only became a fan after making the first movie.
I hope if we get a trek 4 Tarantino is the man.
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Beyond was my favorite of the 3, but I agree with Malaika on that when I heard of the villian not agreeing with Federation expansion, pushing back, etc. I also thought it was a new Alien race seeing the expansion and not sharing the same ideals pushed to agression. All while showing a deeper message of real world issues
Maybe Enterprise helping Race A adjacent to their space and the villian's race strikes, etc. Kirk n crew captured Enterprise damaged or neutralized. Crew captured, they fight back, and along the way help broker a peace or understanding at least that Federation exp should come with respect to others who don't want or fear it with a Shatner-esque speech near end
Federation backs off that area of space and diplomatic relations initiated etc.
BUT, having to write a script 6 months before product started n during will lead to a script that needed a couple rewrites here n there, basically more time to have a better product.
Maybe Enterprise helping Race A adjacent to their space and the villian's race strikes, etc. Kirk n crew captured Enterprise damaged or neutralized. Crew captured, they fight back, and along the way help broker a peace or understanding at least that Federation exp should come with respect to others who don't want or fear it with a Shatner-esque speech near end
Federation backs off that area of space and diplomatic relations initiated etc.
BUT, having to write a script 6 months before product started n during will lead to a script that needed a couple rewrites here n there, basically more time to have a better product.
I believe JJ is a Star Wars fan first. Go to youtube n you can find clips of R2D2 flying out of the Enterprise during Vengeance attack at warp that were in movie, but go so fast you can't id without slomo
Also BOP in STID sounded similar to Tie fighters, IMO
I enjoyed both ST films he made, but that's cross pollination that need not be there. Just a personal preference
I enjoy SW, but ST is superior for me anyways
He was never shy about that fact.
Also, R2-D2 was simply a graphical Easter Egg, since ILM did the effects for the films. Same thing for Serenity appearing in Battlestar Galactica or the Millennium Falcon in Star Trek: First Contact.
It's nothing new-special effects artists have been doing it for decades.
As for the cross-pollination, I've wanted that since I was 8 and first watched "Balance of Terror" and then "Return of the Jedi." They are two properties that I enjoy, thoroughly, and having them cross is fine by me.
Yeah, that's been going on in most SF and SF-flavored movies and TV since the early 80s — it's long become more or less expected. In fact, TNG is full of all kinds of references and allusions and visual in-jokes of that sort, if you know what to look for.
Regarding Abrams being a Star Wars fan: I think that if you go back to the interview(s) in which he was first quoted as saying something of that sort, you'll find that he's talking about what he related to best at the time the first three Star Wars movies came out. It was only afterward that it became distilled down to a presumed "Abrams likes Star Wars only (implied: and he hates Trek.)"
There was a thread running throughout the TOS movies which dealt with Kirk and crew growing older. So is eleven- or thirteen- or fifteen-year old J.J. more likely to gravitate toward stories like that, or toward the coming-of-age stories of Star Wars and Empire and Jedi? Well, duh - of course he's going to find Star Wars the more relatable of the two franchises, and of course that's going to inform his viewpoint in a way similar to what Trek did for nerdy kids from generations which came earlier (TOS) or later (TNG) than his own.
He caught up with Trek in time, but it only makes sense that Star Wars what what he paid attention to during his formative teenage years. Trek wasn't aiming at his crowd then.
Besides, history proves that trek movies don't necessarily need a trek fan in the director chair to be successful, the very opposite, so I don't get this fixation some have in this regard.
JJ's trek is more successful than Lin's trek and the latter was a trek fan.
Frankly, Lin's interviews bored me to death because he was a broken record of the same tale about how he watched trek as a kid (and at one point, honestly, it came across as him trying too hard (tm) to tell reboot haters 'look look! I'm not like JJ you can trust me!'), and too little about the trek he was actually working for. It was like he had nothing to say about the characters of his movie.
I don't give a damn if the director and writers are tos fans, or tng fans, or whatever. At the very least, I expect them to like THIS trek and be inspired by it. If they don't like or get this trek, then it's useless.
Trek fanboys in the creative team can do more harm than anything else because they tend to turn this trek into a greatest hits of tos homages and fan pandering nostalgia (eg Lindelof being obsessed they had to put Khan in stid and copy 'the' scene when even Orci was against that. Tarantino's own ideas are like that too, there is nothing new in what he proposed, and he pretty much wants to turn trek into star wars by making Kirk his Luke Skywalker or Rey, which is ironic ).
JJ did great because he had a more fresh approach to it and was more bold precisely because he wasn't too influenced by nostalgia and wanting to please old fans at any cost. His interviews, unlike Lin's, had always been more interesting to me because he talked about these characters on their own merit and their own story in THIS trek, he really seemed to love his movie and be like 'I cant wait for you all to watch it too!'.
Lin didn't even seem to have actually watched the first movies, he kept on repeating concepts (mostly fanon) that seemed copied and pasted from google and what people say about TOS and that version of the characters.
Like I'm sorry, but talking about these Spock and McCoy being angel and devil at Kirk's side in THIS trek too is dumb. What he was even talking about?! They never had these roles here, mostly because in jj's trek the original trio - that was all about Kirk/Shatner - can't exist with that same narrative 'purpose' since Spock is co-protagonist, and Kirk more or less replaced the role fandom wants Mccoy to have. Simple like that. This Spock is more contemporary too (which is why, like Urban himself admitted, his rivalry with Mccoy may be one sided and forced in this trek where Spock doesn't deny his feelings and human side ), not to even mention that the only trio, if any, in the reboot was the different and more inclusive and less bromance myopia kirk-uhura-spock one, which Lin, of course, ignored like a lot of stuff established by the first movies (Khan, what admiral Marcus was doing, Klingons war, Carol , the vulcan diaspora outside of Spock's conflict, the romulans etc) . That's lack of integrity for me.
I don't want a random trek fan using the budget and reboot's characters to make his own self serving tos fanfiction. Honestly, I just want a director who gives a damn about this trek, otherwise better to have no more movies.
I can't believe, I don't want to believe, it must be so hard to find at least one (1) averagely talented person in the business who liked these movies enough and is like 'omg I can't wait to do more with this!', and is truly, honestly, inspired by the potential this trek has.
JJ's trek is more successful than Lin's trek and the latter was a trek fan.
Frankly, Lin's interviews bored me to death because he was a broken record of the same tale about how he watched trek as a kid (and at one point, honestly, it came across as him trying too hard (tm) to tell reboot haters 'look look! I'm not like JJ you can trust me!'), and too little about the trek he was actually working for. It was like he had nothing to say about the characters of his movie.
I don't give a damn if the director and writers are tos fans, or tng fans, or whatever. At the very least, I expect them to like THIS trek and be inspired by it. If they don't like or get this trek, then it's useless.
Trek fanboys in the creative team can do more harm than anything else because they tend to turn this trek into a greatest hits of tos homages and fan pandering nostalgia (eg Lindelof being obsessed they had to put Khan in stid and copy 'the' scene when even Orci was against that. Tarantino's own ideas are like that too, there is nothing new in what he proposed, and he pretty much wants to turn trek into star wars by making Kirk his Luke Skywalker or Rey, which is ironic ).
JJ did great because he had a more fresh approach to it and was more bold precisely because he wasn't too influenced by nostalgia and wanting to please old fans at any cost. His interviews, unlike Lin's, had always been more interesting to me because he talked about these characters on their own merit and their own story in THIS trek, he really seemed to love his movie and be like 'I cant wait for you all to watch it too!'.
Lin didn't even seem to have actually watched the first movies, he kept on repeating concepts (mostly fanon) that seemed copied and pasted from google and what people say about TOS and that version of the characters.
Like I'm sorry, but talking about these Spock and McCoy being angel and devil at Kirk's side in THIS trek too is dumb. What he was even talking about?! They never had these roles here, mostly because in jj's trek the original trio - that was all about Kirk/Shatner - can't exist with that same narrative 'purpose' since Spock is co-protagonist, and Kirk more or less replaced the role fandom wants Mccoy to have. Simple like that. This Spock is more contemporary too (which is why, like Urban himself admitted, his rivalry with Mccoy may be one sided and forced in this trek where Spock doesn't deny his feelings and human side ), not to even mention that the only trio, if any, in the reboot was the different and more inclusive and less bromance myopia kirk-uhura-spock one, which Lin, of course, ignored like a lot of stuff established by the first movies (Khan, what admiral Marcus was doing, Klingons war, Carol , the vulcan diaspora outside of Spock's conflict, the romulans etc) . That's lack of integrity for me.
I don't want a random trek fan using the budget and reboot's characters to make his own self serving tos fanfiction. Honestly, I just want a director who gives a damn about this trek, otherwise better to have no more movies.
I can't believe, I don't want to believe, it must be so hard to find at least one (1) averagely talented person in the business who liked these movies enough and is like 'omg I can't wait to do more with this!', and is truly, honestly, inspired by the potential this trek has.
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I understand, just a personal preference is all.
I'm actually younger than JJ n grew up with both, dragged a friend to 1st SW movie who didn't like scifi, but wound up really enjoying movie lol
I prefer ST while enjoying SW. I'm anal, ask my Wife lol. So when I personally see queues from SW in ST, or what I perceive, I prefer they not be there. I'm not going to argue I'm right or wrong, it's personal preference
I'm all for expanding the ST fandom. Loved ST09 n JJ's take n fresh air
Just felt STID he took ST where it had been before. Was excited to see where the new universe would go next, but Khan as villian seemed forced IMO and taking 4 years to get there didn't help the Mo of ST09, again IMO
I don't care who directs, or writes script, just that they make a great ST story.
Enjoyed movie, but disappointed we didn't move to the new with anything can happen in this iteration, Vulcan destroyed to make that point, etc.
Beyond has issues too - rushed script. Paramount poor mkt, 1st trailer, 5 months before 2nd trailer, Etc. Etc. Etc.
Again this is all personal preference. If someone else disagrees that's the beauty of the U.S. all good
I WANT ST 4 (14) with this crew, not sure we will get it
Someone mentioned Battlestar Galactica n Star Trek. It's LONG been my desire to see the Galactica and surviving fleet arrive at Earth snd find Star Fleet, etc. Have Star Fleet defeat the cylons etc.
(Yes I've seen the fan made vids on YouTube lol)
That would be great, again personal preference
(Yes I've seen the fan made vids on YouTube lol)
That would be great, again personal preference
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