Too bad he wasn't able to establish them well enough for us to care about if they get deconstructed or not. And if your deconstruction elements are very poorly done.
Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Too bad he wasn't able to establish them well enough for us to care about if they get deconstructed or not. And if your deconstruction elements are very poorly done.
Can't argue with that. A lot of BvS would have worked so much better had we actually gotten to know these characters.
He made the heroes too fallible from early on. There's a reason why we look up to these characters as heroes and the first point is not their flawed, misguided side. That comes later once we've embraced what they symbolize. But from early on they get into moody Batman and Superman dealing with all this crap before we've really had a chance to see them be heroes.
This is EXACTLY why, flaws and all, I found both Man of Steel and BvS (Ultimate Cut) more compelling than just about any MCU film (Winter Soldier possibly in the running).
Now I quite enjoy the MCU films but they don’t challenge my expectations the way MoS and BvS did. And when it comes to superhero stories, challenging my expectations will earn big bonus points for longer term enjoyment. Could the Snyder films be better? Of course they can. Pacing changes and a few narrative reorderings would improve them. Winter Soldier was a better crafted film, as were a number (though not nearly all) of the MCU films. But thematically, MoS and BvS attempted something more interesting to me than anything in the MCU to date. YMMV.
I definitely feel a greater desire to rewatch MOS and BvS than I do the McU films that have been crapping out as of late. With DCEU I see them at the theater then look forward to owning them on Blu-ray. Not so anymore with the McU. Phase one was really good but then around Age of Ultron it started to get very generic and formulaic. At this point I'm fine with waiting until McU films are available on Prime or Netflix.
Showdown's review of Justice League
or mad ramblings of a crazy person
Raiting: A for Awesome
My brother and I saw it over the weekend and had a blast. The members of the JL are the highlight of the movie because they have great chemistry. The plot is simple because of all the heroes. It never felt it was rushed, only a brisk, trimmed story. I was never bored or annoyed. I do have minor problems with the film, like the flowers and plants growing at the end, but not nearly enough to ruin my enjoyment of Justice League. Side characters like Alfred, Jim Gordon, Lois, Martha, Mera, and the Amazons are really good. Snyder and Whedon styles really compliment each other and did not feel disjointed.
Stephenwolf is a bit bland, but a decent villain. He had a funny line; wondering why everyone he attacks always says they have a family. Boring villains never bother me for Marvel or DC films, as long as the heroes are good. While having interesting heroes and villains is a huge positive, having great heroes is more important and easily compensate for bland bad guys. And the JL has fantastic chemistry. I want to hang out with these heroes.
Batman
Bruce's character arc continues from BvS. Where in BvS, he lost his way, going down the anti-hero path straight towards villainary. We see Bruce seeking redemption, admitting he had made terrible mistakes. Now we see him more of a team leader and a mentor to Flash, like he was for Robin (when he was still around). I laughed when Gordon said Batman haven't lost his touch of collateral damage.
Wonder Woman
Diana is always great. Lots of medium tried to potray her as tough but ended making her mean. The DCEU got her right. Strong and tough, but her greatest strength is her compassion. She try to do what's right and help others. She tried to talk Superman down, trying to get him to remember he's a hero. I like how they acknowledge that Steve's death affected her, and she wasn't the beacon of hope she could have been for a century.
Flash
Barry is hilarious. He is an eager and ambitious rookie. He have some the best and funniest lines / moments in the film. From drawing on that bully's face, to racing around the batcave, it's a a blast watching him. Really like they included he's trying to save his innocent dad from prison.
Aquaman
I like this interpertation of him. A rebel, surfer, loner attitude, with excitment for action. They gave him lots of personality. My favorite Arthur scene is when he was sitting on Diana's lasso. Can't wait to see him and Mera in their upcoming film
Victor
I like his arc. He starts off hating what he became, not even sure if he's even human. He even called his dad a monster. Victor end up embracing being a hero and getting along with Silas. I'm glad they didn't make him boring and mopey all the through the movie. His weird computer language is a good moment, as it shows hes more than a human in a robot suit.
Superman
And the best for last. His rage-mode shows how powerful and dangerous he could really be. Love the echo "Do you bleed" towards Batman. Once he regained his memories, we finally see the Superman I wanted to see since MoS. Friendly, funny, and totally badass. From MoS to JL, we see his journey, from a outcast, to lost wanderer, to distrusted samaritan, to martyr, to hero, and hopefully later, to Earth's greatest champion. His fight with the JL is one of my favorite parts of the movie, and his reunion with his mom is really touching.
I can understand why Superman is happy now. At first, he was alone in the world, no one was like him, or can really understand him. He sacrificed himself to save people from a monster. The world saw him differently. He is not just an all powerful destructive alien or a would be conquerer, but someone who will give everything to save the world even when the world hates him. Clark may have once gave up on being Superman, but never gave up on humanity. His sacrifce has change things and he's able to comeback. Also Superman found love and other heroes with powers like him. He's no longer alone. That's why he's smiling and happy.
The movie also talks about an important subject. Whether it's science, technology, or even power. They can be used, like Lex and Stephenwolf, to harm or destroy mankind; as oppose to the JL, to help mankind. Weapons in the hands of good people, can protect, but in the hands of bad people, can kill. The same goes for everything else.
Any more disappointments in JL? A few. First, I want more! What we have isn't enough! I want more backstory on the new characters. I would love to see Green Lantern Hal Jordan. Stephenwolf should be a bigger threat. Maybe after the Mother boxes were destroyed, he could have absord their power in his axe and became an unstoppable rage monster, prompting Clark and Diana to shatter it.
In conclusion, while there are weak points in the movie, the good parts more than make up for them. It's one of the funniest Flash, the most badass Aquaman, a very human Cyborg, a great father/mentor Batman, an awesome Wonder Woman, and the best Superman in a long time.
or mad ramblings of a crazy person
Raiting: A for Awesome
My brother and I saw it over the weekend and had a blast. The members of the JL are the highlight of the movie because they have great chemistry. The plot is simple because of all the heroes. It never felt it was rushed, only a brisk, trimmed story. I was never bored or annoyed. I do have minor problems with the film, like the flowers and plants growing at the end, but not nearly enough to ruin my enjoyment of Justice League. Side characters like Alfred, Jim Gordon, Lois, Martha, Mera, and the Amazons are really good. Snyder and Whedon styles really compliment each other and did not feel disjointed.
Stephenwolf is a bit bland, but a decent villain. He had a funny line; wondering why everyone he attacks always says they have a family. Boring villains never bother me for Marvel or DC films, as long as the heroes are good. While having interesting heroes and villains is a huge positive, having great heroes is more important and easily compensate for bland bad guys. And the JL has fantastic chemistry. I want to hang out with these heroes.
Batman
Bruce's character arc continues from BvS. Where in BvS, he lost his way, going down the anti-hero path straight towards villainary. We see Bruce seeking redemption, admitting he had made terrible mistakes. Now we see him more of a team leader and a mentor to Flash, like he was for Robin (when he was still around). I laughed when Gordon said Batman haven't lost his touch of collateral damage.
Wonder Woman
Diana is always great. Lots of medium tried to potray her as tough but ended making her mean. The DCEU got her right. Strong and tough, but her greatest strength is her compassion. She try to do what's right and help others. She tried to talk Superman down, trying to get him to remember he's a hero. I like how they acknowledge that Steve's death affected her, and she wasn't the beacon of hope she could have been for a century.
Flash
Barry is hilarious. He is an eager and ambitious rookie. He have some the best and funniest lines / moments in the film. From drawing on that bully's face, to racing around the batcave, it's a a blast watching him. Really like they included he's trying to save his innocent dad from prison.
Aquaman
I like this interpertation of him. A rebel, surfer, loner attitude, with excitment for action. They gave him lots of personality. My favorite Arthur scene is when he was sitting on Diana's lasso. Can't wait to see him and Mera in their upcoming film
Victor
I like his arc. He starts off hating what he became, not even sure if he's even human. He even called his dad a monster. Victor end up embracing being a hero and getting along with Silas. I'm glad they didn't make him boring and mopey all the through the movie. His weird computer language is a good moment, as it shows hes more than a human in a robot suit.
Superman
And the best for last. His rage-mode shows how powerful and dangerous he could really be. Love the echo "Do you bleed" towards Batman. Once he regained his memories, we finally see the Superman I wanted to see since MoS. Friendly, funny, and totally badass. From MoS to JL, we see his journey, from a outcast, to lost wanderer, to distrusted samaritan, to martyr, to hero, and hopefully later, to Earth's greatest champion. His fight with the JL is one of my favorite parts of the movie, and his reunion with his mom is really touching.
I can understand why Superman is happy now. At first, he was alone in the world, no one was like him, or can really understand him. He sacrificed himself to save people from a monster. The world saw him differently. He is not just an all powerful destructive alien or a would be conquerer, but someone who will give everything to save the world even when the world hates him. Clark may have once gave up on being Superman, but never gave up on humanity. His sacrifce has change things and he's able to comeback. Also Superman found love and other heroes with powers like him. He's no longer alone. That's why he's smiling and happy.
The movie also talks about an important subject. Whether it's science, technology, or even power. They can be used, like Lex and Stephenwolf, to harm or destroy mankind; as oppose to the JL, to help mankind. Weapons in the hands of good people, can protect, but in the hands of bad people, can kill. The same goes for everything else.
Any more disappointments in JL? A few. First, I want more! What we have isn't enough! I want more backstory on the new characters. I would love to see Green Lantern Hal Jordan. Stephenwolf should be a bigger threat. Maybe after the Mother boxes were destroyed, he could have absord their power in his axe and became an unstoppable rage monster, prompting Clark and Diana to shatter it.
In conclusion, while there are weak points in the movie, the good parts more than make up for them. It's one of the funniest Flash, the most badass Aquaman, a very human Cyborg, a great father/mentor Batman, an awesome Wonder Woman, and the best Superman in a long time.
Last edited:
I dunno if that's such a problem. The Marvel characters are all flawed people with their flaws made clear from the start. It hasn't hurt them one bit.
Saw the movie today. I read one non-spoilery review prior to seeing it and that review was a relatively good one (for a DCEU movie review). All I can say after seeing JL is that I am done with DCEU movies OTHER than Wonder Woman. What a disappointment.
This movie might have been pretty good had it come out 10-15 years ago. It just seemed old, unimaginative, and dull. The Fx used to show the Flashes' speed looked like something from years ago. In light of the incredible effects for Quicksilver in the X-Men movies, how do you release a movie in 2017 that with speed effects that appear to be from the 1990's?
Steppenwolf was the dullest villain since Scarcrow in BB. He was a total charicature who eventually lulled me to sleep, which made me miss the the "shocking" return of Superman. I woke up and there he was.
Other than WW (and Bat Girl) , this will be my last DCEU movie unless I get some definitive
This movie might have been pretty good had it come out 10-15 years ago. It just seemed old, unimaginative, and dull. The Fx used to show the Flashes' speed looked like something from years ago. In light of the incredible effects for Quicksilver in the X-Men movies, how do you release a movie in 2017 that with speed effects that appear to be from the 1990's?
Steppenwolf was the dullest villain since Scarcrow in BB. He was a total charicature who eventually lulled me to sleep, which made me miss the the "shocking" return of Superman. I woke up and there he was.
Other than WW (and Bat Girl) , this will be my last DCEU movie unless I get some definitive
Last edited:
It's never been the guiding force behind their decisions though. They remained heroes.
On a different note, Justice League was supposed to be a 2 parter film. Was the best saved for part 2 with this movie being a lead up to Darkseid?
Justice League was not supposed to be a 2-parter film.
There were two JL movies announced back when they released their initial planned slate, tentatively labeled Part 1 and Part 2, but that was just a convenient label. From interviews before BvS was released, it was clear that JL was supposed to be a standalone movie and a finale to the trilogy of MoS/BvS/JL.
2 movies were announced and they were already filming 'Justice League' when BVS came out. Surely they had part two lined up when they thought BVS would become a massive success. Part 2 was slated for 2019.
They didn't have The Flash lined up, the movie that was immediately supposed to follow JL, let alone anything after that...
I think it's fairly obvious now that the slate was more of a "would be nice" rather than "this is a concrete plan."
WB's mantra in general with the DC franchise, it seems.
Weren't there two green lantarns?
I give the movie a B+
I give the movie a B+
Yeah, I get that. It’s so mind numbingly simple that I’m not sure how anyone could miss it. He could have made it interesting.
It’s also a bit concerning that Lois Lane is Superman’s only connection to humanity. She’s human, she could slip in the shower and break her neck. Then Superman is going to go cray cray.
What the DC folks have tried to do over the years is to take superheros rather seriously as mythic and invest some meaning and significance in them, which whether successful or not makes some sense with the DC stable as they're more or less the archetypes for what comic book superheroes are. Marvel, OTOH, treats most of their properties as superficial bang-a-minute carnival rides. They're pretty successful at that.
Grade: B-
Finally got around to seeing this. I went in with low expectations. Just the trailers themselves didn't impress me, but hey, I'm a comic junkie and was going to see the film. I've never, and still aren't, a fan of Rotten Tomatoes. Sometimes we agree but often we don't. I find the overly homogenization of things to be getting tiresome. I didn't talk to anyone in person who flat hated the film but according to RT I should have.
I looked and looked for the bad Superman 'stache and during the film was too caught up in the dialogue and set pieces to I guess actually see this "problem". Yes, I've now seen screen grab stills but during the film I contend "Joe Public" didn't see it either and the internet is largely full of these homogenized band wagon experts who need to "right" for some reason or other.
It's a serviceable film with flaws but much, much more watchable than BvS or SS by miles. You only get so many story avenues in these films so I dismiss similarities to Avengers. It was like all similarities Wonder Woman had to Captain America The First Avenger.
My grade reflects a Bruce/Batman who jokes that goes against type of what we saw in BvS or SS.
How inconsistent it is to have a strong woman heroine in her solo film but do a juvenile joke with Flash falling on top of her, head in cleavage. Alfred calling out Bruce's name when he shouldn't be. The causal way Cyborg tells Alfred he's got this and there is no history there. The you can't miss it bad Steppenwolf CGI though and bad dialogue. Why did they not mocap him like Brolin was for Thanos? At least when Loki is being cliche he has charisma.
Superman was a marked step up in Justice League vs MoS and BvS. Simmons as Gordon was great, need more of this when we get to The Batman solo film. Largely I liked Aquaman. He was a bit too Frat boy for me but the character has decades of negativity to overcome. I'll chalk it up to a massive overcorrect but can go with this for now. Joe Morton as Silas Stone is brilliant casting. I've liked the actor in several things over the years but you can't help but love the irony here.
It's a shame it's gotten such a bad reception and has missed a window to bounce back. The Infinity War trailer dropped and is getting massively positive reception. Star Wars is just around the proverbial corner and soon JL will be forgotten. I do hope for a sequel though. Still hope for the DCEU.
Finally got around to seeing this. I went in with low expectations. Just the trailers themselves didn't impress me, but hey, I'm a comic junkie and was going to see the film. I've never, and still aren't, a fan of Rotten Tomatoes. Sometimes we agree but often we don't. I find the overly homogenization of things to be getting tiresome. I didn't talk to anyone in person who flat hated the film but according to RT I should have.
I looked and looked for the bad Superman 'stache and during the film was too caught up in the dialogue and set pieces to I guess actually see this "problem". Yes, I've now seen screen grab stills but during the film I contend "Joe Public" didn't see it either and the internet is largely full of these homogenized band wagon experts who need to "right" for some reason or other.
It's a serviceable film with flaws but much, much more watchable than BvS or SS by miles. You only get so many story avenues in these films so I dismiss similarities to Avengers. It was like all similarities Wonder Woman had to Captain America The First Avenger.
My grade reflects a Bruce/Batman who jokes that goes against type of what we saw in BvS or SS.
How inconsistent it is to have a strong woman heroine in her solo film but do a juvenile joke with Flash falling on top of her, head in cleavage. Alfred calling out Bruce's name when he shouldn't be. The causal way Cyborg tells Alfred he's got this and there is no history there. The you can't miss it bad Steppenwolf CGI though and bad dialogue. Why did they not mocap him like Brolin was for Thanos? At least when Loki is being cliche he has charisma.
Superman was a marked step up in Justice League vs MoS and BvS. Simmons as Gordon was great, need more of this when we get to The Batman solo film. Largely I liked Aquaman. He was a bit too Frat boy for me but the character has decades of negativity to overcome. I'll chalk it up to a massive overcorrect but can go with this for now. Joe Morton as Silas Stone is brilliant casting. I've liked the actor in several things over the years but you can't help but love the irony here.
It's a shame it's gotten such a bad reception and has missed a window to bounce back. The Infinity War trailer dropped and is getting massively positive reception. Star Wars is just around the proverbial corner and soon JL will be forgotten. I do hope for a sequel though. Still hope for the DCEU.
Similar threads
- Poll
