Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

[Mudd]

I very much preferred the more cheerful portrayal this time out. Still interesting.

 

[Jax]

Being a god among men, half of whom want to kill you and the other half to worship you, is one hell of a burden.

I wouldn't smile too much in his place. Man of Steel/Batman V Superman version of Supes > Justice League > Christopher Reeve's (who ideal for his Superman's world, but wouldn't work in anything in any way more realistic)

MoS was a more believable version of Superman in my opinion and one that was updated for the times. Snyder best work was with the opening act of the DCEU over BvS and whatever parts of JL he did that ended up in the finished product. His biggest problem is what I call his inner Michael Bay, he can't help himself when it comes to blowing up everything & anything in sight and just for the sake of the budget you would of thought WB might of reigned that in rather than the cutting spree's forced upon BvS & JL.

MoS needed a classic Superman moment once he dons the cape like saving a plane leaving the world to wonder who/what he is just before Zod arrives. Also the carnage should of been lowered in Smallville such as the petrol station and the train depot that goes kaboom because of Superman throwing people into them. The final act I was less bothered about because Zod was the one actually doing the mass damage either through his world engine or by dictating the early parts of his fight against Kal-El but Snyder didn't exactly highlight that fact as much as he should of. Saying all of that the rest of MoS is brilliant and remains one of my favourite movies of all time.

I still hope for an extended and mainly Snyder cut of JL on Blu Ray in the future because I'm curious to see his version of his personal DCEU trilogy.

 

[The Realist]

It's really rather hard to take people's arguments seriously when they're predicating said arguments on completely untrue - and provably untrue - things.

There is nothing whatsoever about the DCEU Superman that is in any way at odds with more traditional depictions of the character, on a fundamentally philosophical level, and never has been, even going back to Man of Steel.

I don't understand how it is that I, someone who was not a fan of the character prior to 2013, can recognize that and yet people who claim to have been fans of the character for years can't.

I thought we had been over this. There's nothing "provable" about a viewer's subjective response to the DCEU Superman, whether positive or negative. Though if you've only been a fan of the character since 2013 -- i.e., since Man of Steel -- it does seem to me others are perhaps better qualified to opine on how well this version of the character jibes with his preceding 75-year legacy.

 

[dahj]

I still hope for an extended and mainly Snyder cut of JL on Blu Ray in the future because I'm curious to see his version of his personal DCEU trilogy.

I'd really like that too, but according to the Internet an extended cut is likely, but a Snyder cut is unlikely.

 

[John Clark]

Growing up, I probably read more Marvel than DC comics for the simple reason that the former were easier to come by where I lived. But Ive always loved the characters of Superman and Batman and have seen all of their films in the cinema (yes, including Superman IV & Batman and Robin).

Basically, I want to be entertained by a film, including comic book films. It's not partisan - if DC make a great film, I want it to inspire Marvel to make a better one and vice versa.

Same here, though even the marvel comics were difficult to get for me. The most I saw was of Spiderman (as back up to another series). Rocket and Tony Stark Junior popped up about once.

I tended to see much more of the DC side on tv/cinema.

 

[Kelthaz]

There is nothing whatsoever about the DCEU Superman that is in any way at odds with more traditional depictions of the character

I don't understand how it is that I, someone who was not a fan of the character prior to 2013, can recognize that and yet people who claim to have been fans of the character for years can't.

So you disliked the character prior to Man of Steel, but you say that there's no difference in the character before and after Man of Steel. Hmm...

 

[Ethros]

Just saw it this afternoon. I'd seen it had gotten a few bad reviews, but I didn't actually read any of them as I don't like to be spoiled. Anyway, I don't know what the problem is I really enjoyed it. Fuck the critics

It wasn't like the best film I've ever seen and yeah it had a few problems, but no more than most superhero movies. And yeah the villain was one note and forgettable... like 90% of all Marvel movie bad guys (and I'm way more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan btw)
I don't know why some can enjoy something like Spider-Man Homecoming or Thor "Green Screen the Movie" Ragnarok but then not enjoy this. Whatever. I gave it a B+ for my enjoyment, I'll definitely get it on Blu ray and watch it again.

 

[DigificWriter]

I didnt dislike Superman prior to 2013; I was ambivalent towards him.

However, I was aware of him enough to recognize the characteristics that made him who he was as a character and that made him appeal to other people... characteristics that I recognized in the DCEU Superman immediately.

If the DCEU's approach to the character were as dramatically different as people claim, it would not have been possible for me to recognize the characteristics that have defined the character since his creation, characteristics that I engaged with because of how the DCEU presented them.

For the first time since I'd been exposed to the character in the 90s, Man of Steel's Superman was as relatable to me as his cousin Supergirl had always been, and for all of the same reasons.

After seeing Man of Steel, I related to the character of Superman and all he symbolically stood for not because they'd suddenly changed who he was, but because they'd made the decision to put as much focus on the "man" as they did on the "super", showcasing to a far greater deal than before the idea that the "human" values taught to him by the Kents were as much a part of who he was as the "superhuman" abilities he manifested due to his alien DNA.

Also, all of this is incredibly provable simply by comparing, outlining, and analyizing the characteristics of both the "traditional" Superman and the character as presented in the DCEU, something that has been done far more succinctly than I ever could by people who have far more affinity for the character than I ever will, some examples being Matt Rushing (@Enterprise is Great), Norman C. Lao, and Will Nyguen, all of whom are currently or formerly associated with the Trek.fm network.

 

[Mudd]

Also, all of this is incredibly provable simply by comparing, outlining, and analyizing the characteristics of both the "traditional" Superman and the character as presented in the DCEU,

No.

That is not "proving" your point.

That would be providing a supported argument for your point, which would be laudable, but not "proof."

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Nah, it's just a bit of fun deflating anything pretentious. Or people with delusions of eloquence.

...which you would not recognize. So, take comfort in eating up the Saturday morning drivel that is the majority of the MCU.

No, I just don't worship Nolan to the point I ignore Ledger dying is what made it impossible to criticize the film and it's many flaws. Like how lazy it was to make Joker omnipotent, how wasted Dent was, how the philosophies the movie pushes is utter BS, etc.

Thankfully, few would ever see eye-to-eye with your bitter judgement, born of the need for comic-based films to be no better than an episode of the 80s G.I. Joe.

...but continue to mock the memory of a dead man, in your ever-classy manner.

Nope, people aren't ashamed of stuff like Magic or Aliens that aren't stuck on Earth anymore. DC never would've had the balls to make a Superman movie where he's actually out in space on other worlds before the MCU paved the way for them. They've elevated the genre instead of selling out.

Absolute bullshit. Space and aliens are not the point of superhero films. To date, the greatest of all comic stories featuring Batman, Spider-Man, Capt. America, the Hulk, the Teen Titans, Iron Man the JLA, the Avengers and others were plots with the hero on earth, dealing with non-extraterrestrial threats. You really are of that 80s cartoon mindset. Since your desire is obviously heroes vs. aliens, watch the Star Wars or Alien movies.

Further, the general belief that the greatest of all superhero adaptations being Superman the Movie, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy--were also...grounded on earth, and yes, that includes Superman, as the Krypton sequence was a prologue, with the heart of the film taking place on earth. In no surprise, you get it wrong again.

Depends on how ashamed you are of comics and how utterly incapable you are of breaking out of your box and accepting new possibilities. Ironic for someone who is a fan of Star Trek.

Let's see, as a matter of history, which Spider-Man storyline is considered greater: The entire back-to-back drama involving Gwen Stacy/the Green Goblin from Amazing Spider-Man #121/122, or Spider-Man getting the symbiote black suit in Marvel Super Heores Secret Wars #8 which (ultimately)spawned Venom? One was firmly grounded in human drama on earth...the other was not. Let's see how quickly you try to spin this one.

Nope, put it out today and none of Nolan's movies would be that respected. Dr Strange got a better reception than Inception did.

Nonsensical. Inception is not the Dark Knight films. The same Dark Knight films which surpass 99% of all MCU films in every category one could imagine.

 

[Anwar]

...which you would not recognize.

Sure I do, it's just that you can't seem to stand it.

Thankfully, few would ever see eye-to-eye with your bitter judgement, born of

Ledger dying making people think that it would be bad to genuinely criticize the movie and point out its flaws.

...but continue to mock the memory of a dead man, in your ever-classy manner.

Truth hurts, don't it? I'm past trying to be gentle with Nolanites.

Absolute bullshit. Space and aliens are not the point of superhero films.

Take your shame somewhere else, it isn't 2000 anymore.

Leave it to you, The Hulk would be about Bruce Banner merely having a violent split personality with no actual hulking.

To date, the greatest of all comic stories featuring Batman, Spider-Man, Capt. America, the Hulk, the Teen Titans, Iron Man the JLA, the Avengers and others were plots with the hero on earth, dealing with non-extraterrestrial threats.

To the people who are ashamed of comics. Most everyone else enjoys the variety instead of selling out.

Further, the general belief that the greatest of all superhero adaptations being Superman the Movie, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy

People only thought that because those films had little to no competition and nostalgia backing them. None of them would do well in today's environment wherein audiences aren't ashamed of non-grounded stuff in CBMS anymore.

Let's see, as a matter of history, which Spider-Man storyline is considered greater: The entire back-to-back drama involving Gwen Stacy/the Green Goblin from Amazing Spider-Man #121/122, or Spider-Man getting the symbiote black suit in Marvel Super Heores Secret Wars #8 which (ultimately)spawned Venom? One was firmly grounded in human drama on earth...the other was not. Let's see how quickly you try to spin this one.

The story about Gwen dying is famous more for the precedent it set for killing off the love interest and major villain in one go. The actual story itself isn't anything special. Gwen had been a royal annoyance for a long time by that point.

The same Dark Knight films which surpass 99% of all MCU films in every category one could imagine.

For those ashamed of comics. Put them out today where the MCU has helped elevate what is seen as enjoyable and acceptable in CBMs and the Dark Knight movies wouldn't do as well. All Dark Knight have going for them anymore is that they appeal to people who can't stand actual comic-booky stuff. The throwbacks who belong in a museum.

The philosophies in Dark Knight? All mostly nonsense that don't hold up to analysis.
Making the villains the source of everything with Batman merely reacting to what they do? Lazy.
The lack of internal conflict, even lazier.

 

[DigificWriter]

No.

That is not "proving" your point.

That would be providing a supported argument for your point, which would be laudable, but not "proof."

How is it not?

 

[Awesome Possum]

No comic book movie is that deep, not even the Dark Knight films. Maybe if you hadn't seen anything but generic mass produced movies released by major studios, some are slightly clever. But none of them are art by even the most generous stretch of the imagination. Honestly I'm stunned I don't hear the same about the Fast and Furious films. It's all the same really.

Go see actual art.

 

[ichab]

Ledger dying making people think that it would be bad to genuinely criticize the movie and point out its flaws.

Repeating this lie over and over doesn't make it true

To the people who are ashamed of comics. Most everyone else enjoys the variety instead of selling out.

Repeating this lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

People only thought that because those films had little to no competition and nostalgia backing them. None of them would do well in today's environment wherein audiences aren't ashamed of non-grounded stuff in CBMS anymore.

Repeating this lie over and over again doesn't make ot true.

For those ashamed of comics. Put them out today where the MCU has helped elevate what is seen as enjoyable and acceptable in CBMs and the Dark Knight movies wouldn't do as well. All Dark Knight have going for them anymore is that they appeal to people who can't stand actual comic-booky stuff. The throwbacks who belong in a museum.

Well let's see....Logan tore it up at the box office and so did Deadpool. Both came out recently and were Earth based stories. So there's plenty of room for both styles of movies

Look we get it. You hate the DC universe and think every comic book adaption should be like Ragnorak. Earth bound stories bore you and you don't want them grounded in reality. Enjoy your cookie cutter kids movies. Just don't try to pass off your opinions as fact because you look ridiculous doing so.

Also, the MCU Fanboy thread is that way...------------->

 

[Mudd]

You don't hear that about the Fast and Furious films because the fans aren't convinced the movies are life-changing insight into the Nature of All Things.

 

[Saul]

Went to see JL tonight. What's people's problem with the movie? It's not great but I enjoyed it more than Man of Steal, BvS and even Thor Ragnarok.
Holy shit, superman smiled and laughed in this one. Yes, it's got problems but I left feeling not pissed off at the way the characters were handled.

 

[Jax]

I really wish the film was longer so it could of expanded on the return of Superman better. I would of liked to see Steppenwolf at the order of Darkseid (who needed more mentions) tried to use the Mother Box to bring back Superman to cement his hold over the Earth. This would of tied directly into the BvS scenes that Bruce saw and of course the key thanks to the Flash message was Lois, so it all ties up nicely. The box could of been the reason for a change to a long haired, bearded Superman in the black suit.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

What? I'm Barry Allen? I quit.

 

[DigificWriter]

The "black suit" was never going to be in the movie, and we got our explanation for Bruce's "Knightmare" anyway, albeit without having to have it "exposited" to us: in the timeline Barry came from, somebody resurrected Clark using a Mother Box and he went nuts and allied himself with Steppenwolf.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I thought it was a solid superhero movie. Steppenwolf might have been your generic overpowered guy but I thought it was made up for by the personalities of the League. Considering this was our introduction to half of them they were fleshed out decently and weren't interchangable cut-outs. I was especially impressed how well Cyborg worked in motion and the actor (and his voice) did a fine job with what I consider a hard character to pull off. The only one who I thought was a bit weak was Gadot's line delivery sometimes but they sell WW so well visually it doesn't matter. WW gets a lot of those pump your fist action beats and is the most "macho" muscle of the group.

Maybe the cracks would show on more viewings but I think if one can forget about Snyder, Whedon, troubles, reshoots, the DCEU, the MCU, etc. and just watch it it's worth seeing.

I do have to mention how terrible that cover of "Everybody Knows" is that opens the film. That definitely didn't help to set the mood. Cohen or even Concrete Blonde would've certainly been better.