Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

[Mudd]

Superman was my favorite part of the movie. Clark/Superman and Bruce/Batman together were my second favorite part.

Aquaman would be third, Flash fourth. Cyborg doesn't make as strong an impression as he might.

Wonder Woman is in some kind of special category of her own. Gadot just owns that role.

 

[Mudd]

So can we have some non-conspiracy theories on the disconnect with critics? I just can't, for the life of me, see how people can say this was a terrible movie. It was "fine".

No. Professional critics don't reflect audience tastes, and this is not news - terribly reviewed movies have been successful just about since the beginnings of commercial film. It's just noticeable in a new way because these sites are comparing critical ratings side-by-side with audience reaction that's often based on a much larger - if self-selected - sample than in the past.

 

[Trekker4747]

Agreed. Superman really felt "like Superman" here, Batman was really good because I think Affleck does decent there (more as Bruce Wayne). Aquaman I thought was decent and good at sort of making the character more "modern" and in line with the level of badassery he deserves. Cyborg you could remove from this movie and not really lose anything at all.

But, yeah, Gadot/Wonder Woman is just on a whole other level, I look at her and what she does and I just see Wonder Woman and her purely kicking ass, I liked the bank-robbery scene sequence with her and just... Man, she does just damn good with WW, I'm impressed and take back all reservations I had about her when she was first announced.

 

[DigificWriter]

Like I said, per BvS, she apparently futzed off for a century. Even the public appearance of Superman didn't draw her out for a full year - and even then, it took the badgering of a man.

None of this is even remotely close to what happened.

Diana was fighting the fight, as per her own words in JL; she was just "fighting from the shadows".

 

[Gryffindorian]

An A+ movie for me, hands down. Am I the only person who enjoyed it immensely and thought it was highly entertaining? I felt it was up there with Wonder Woman, and I liked it so much better than any of DC predecessors like BvS and Man of Steel.

In terms of superhero films in general, I would say it's comparable in quality to the two Avengers films. Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man - they all had the luxury of having their own origin stories on the big screen while Aquaman Man and Cyborg are still relatively unknown to many viewers. Of course, they could have been more fleshed out, but that didn't take away from the chemistry and the relationship dynamics among the characters.

One part I particularly like was the battle scene between the Amazons and Steppenwolf, which could've worked as a better opener to the movie. I also thought the war scene between Steppenwolf and the Atlanteans, humans, and Amazons was reminiscent of the battle of Middle-earth (LotR The Fellowship of the Ring) , where we saw Sauron getting defeated by the combined armies of humans, elves, and dwarfs. By the way, did anybody get a good look at the Green Lantern that Steppenwolf killed?

My brother was too hasty to leave, so I didn't catch the post credit scene, only the race between Barry and Kal.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I ranked it a C+.

I don't think it was a complete disaster, but it was a bit of a mess. The storytelling was herky-jerky and all over the place. So much of the character bits, such as Barry with his father in the jail, would have benefited from having a prior solo movie in place. The villain was weak as hell, and was more exposition than character.

Gal Gadot was amazing as always. And God help me, I really like Ben Affleck as Batman. I really hope he sticks with the role.

 

[Tosk]

It's nowhere near as bad as people are making out. Go watch Batman and Robin, all of you.

"Better than Batman & Robin" is not a good way to get people to like a movie.

 

[Mudd]

An A+ movie for me, hands down. Am I the only person who enjoyed it immensely and thought it was highly entertaining?

No.

 

[Anwar]

So after the big war with Steppenwolf millennia ago they split up the Mother Boxes among the three "tribes" who fought. (The Amazonians, The Atlantians and the Humans.)

The Amazonians put it and stone chamber and have it constantly guarded on an island that's hidden from the rest of the world.

The Atlantians put it in sort of a vault-like chamber that's guarded at the bottom of the ocean.

The humans just buried there's somewhere in the forest.

And ironically, the Human one was the last one Steppenwolf found.

 

[Noname Given]

Aquaman is going to outgross Justice League. Well, maybe not internationally, but domestically it will for sure. Jason Mamoa is very well liked in the role and James Wan has name recognition. Heh, well there's something I never thought I'd say a year or two ago.

I think DC needs to step back and focus on making good solo movies. Build a good solid foundation before they attempt Justice League 2. Darkseid can wait. And for the love of god no reboot.

Yeah, tell me - how did having Jason Mamoa in the new Conan film a few years ago turn out? My point? He's relatively unknown, and Aquaman isn't really a DC top tier superhero. JL opening box office suffered because Warners hasn't made DCEU films a majority of the general audience likes (Wonder Woman was the first to break that trend) - but many people (among them friends of mine who were want to see Thor: Ragnarok - but this week said, (based on how they felt about BvS) said they'd pass on Justice League (IE wait until it's on cable).

Personally Suicide Squad was a hot nearly unwatchable mess, and I didn't care much for BvS either (Lex Luthor came across more like the Joker; and I didn't need to see Batman's origin redone again for the 4th time - and the film took itself WAY too seriously - and sorry, given how this world first encountered Superman and the feeling about him at the time - the response to the funeral was over the top. I could see the Superman we've had in the actual comic book continuity receiving such a funeral, but the DCEU Superman, no, sorry.)

The fact is: Warners hasn't done a very good job in trying to quickly play 'catch up' with the MCU (because they feel any superhero film is 'hot' atm and critic proof. And to a point they are correct in that they WILL make money on these films in the long run, and they've had one real general public/critics hit out of four DCEU films (Wonder Woman); but yeah, they either need to quit trying to ape Marvel and stop trying tom set everything in the 'Batman' style of "Batman Begins' (Marvel's films strengths is that they don't try to use the exact same formula or backdrop for every film they do); and they also don't have studio execs riding herd and using focus group research for every creative choice.

But, Warners definitely expected MCU Avengers/Avergers 2 box office for both BvS and JL - and BvS (which WAS a successful film) didn't reach that level, and JL won't come close to even BvS box office; so Warners is I'm sure not happy and feel these films under performed, but don't understand that micro-managing these projects won't help.

 

[Trekker4747]

That's one thing that got me about Superman's "funeral" was that it seemed over the top and out of place as we'd never seen Superman reach this level of notoriety. It seems like we were told all of this worship of him and we're supposed to accept it since it's Superman and that's how things are in the various incarnations of him; so we needn't show anything.

 

[Tosk]

I don't think the funeral was over the top for someone who saved almost every person on Earth. And that's not even counting all the other rescues he performed in the months between MOS and BvS.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I give this movie a solid B+. I don't think it was as good as Wonder Woman, but for me, it blew BvS and MOS out of the water. Those movies just didn't work for me at all for various reasons, from the dark tone to the absolute failure to understand what it is about Superman that makes him such an iconic character.

I think this movie was a step in the right direction.

I feel like they heard a lot of the criticisms and addressed them, and if that means ignoring some of the lesser elements of the other movies, so be it.

I'm not sold yet on Cavill as Superman. I think he was still a bit wooden. He doesn't seem to display Superman's warmth and ability to connect with the people. I think the SCRIPT tried, but not sure Cavill executed very well.

One of the things that makes Superman so great is that he comes off as a really nice guy who despite his godlike power, is someone that people can relate to and admire.

Perfect example of that was Superman taking the time to do that kids' interview at the beginning of the movie.

I would love to have seen Christopher Reeve or Dean Cain do the same scene. I think they would have done better.

But one thing I would love to see now is a Superman centric movie with this better tone.

I loved that Superman was finally shown as powerful as he is. It seems evident that he might have been able to take out Steppenwolf by himself had he been around in the beginning of the movie. It's not that Superman doesn't need help, he does, but if he were alone, the world would have still been saved. Having backup though still saves lives, as Superman is just one person. Having Wonder Woman and Aquaman there for example, gave Superman and Flash time to save civilians, which couldn't happen if Superman were alone.

Once again, I think they did a great job with Wonder Woman. For some reason, they just get this character better than others.

Batman was done a little better as well, though I still want a younger Batman. Hopefully this will be addressed at some point--maybe if they do Flashpoint or a crisis movie, a new actor will take Batman's place, like it was Doctor Who.

 

[Tosk]

I think the SCRIPT tried, but not sure Cavill executed very well.

I think it's the material, but I could be wrong. To me, Cavill in interviews is generally how I want Clark to be. He's well spoken, and thoughtful, and warm and friendly. If it weren't for the movies themselves, I'd probably have a man-crush on him.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I normally would have agreed with that--but I think this time, the script did a much better job with Superman. So THIS time, it may be the actor.

 

[Mudd]

I enjoy Cavill's portrayal a great deal, probably more than Reeve's at this point. Cavill brings some nuance and a sense of an inner life to the part.

There's always a little element of "what's he going to say/do" sort of suspense to watching his portrayal.

I mean, you could see "Do you bleed?" coming about a beat and a half early but he even sold that.

He's a pretty versatile actor for a guy who's so ridiculously good looking.

 

[Kirk Prime]

For me, he seems a bit on the wooden side. No passion. No warmth. But in fairness, he hasn't had enough time to actually play Superman yet. He's so far just played a guy that dresses like Superman sort of, and has similar powers.

 

[Jax]

given how this world first encountered Superman and the feeling about him at the time - the response to the funeral was over the top. I could see the Superman we've had in the actual comic book continuity receiving such a funeral, but the DCEU Superman, no, sorry.)

That's one thing that got me about Superman's "funeral" was that it seemed over the top and out of place as we'd never seen Superman reach this level of notoriety. It seems like we were told all of this worship of him and we're supposed to accept it since it's Superman and that's how things are in the various incarnations of him; so we needn't show anything.

He's an god like alien from another world who saved the entire world.

 

[crookeddy]

Returning, briefly, to the subject of the DGA, if Warner Bros., Zack, and Joss had gone to arbitration and Zack had waived the directorial rights afforded to him, it would have been possible for his name to have been removed from the film and for Joss to have been given credit as the director, which we know was not the case.

I've beaten this horse into the ground, though, so enough about that.

I was able to briefly set aside my fear and worry about the future of the DCEU long enough to watch and enjoy JL, but the further away we get from the film's relesse, the more the worry sets back in, and I wish I knew what to do about it, because it would be a colossal tragedy if Warner Bros. decided to abandon the series and start over, even with Aquaman finished and Shazam in pre-production.

Lets keep this discussion short, as its kind of off topic but, how do you suspect this works:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/han-solo-phil-lord-chris-miller-exit-reason-1201899148/

Word is 80% of their movie has been re-shot. Why would that be allowed?

 

[crookeddy]

https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-budget-earn-break-even/

Needs $600 million worldwide to break even.