Just watched TSFS again

[alpha_leonis]

Disclaimer: "odd-numbered rule" notwithstanding, The Search for Spock is my personal favorite of all the Star Trek feature films. This is mostly nostalgia, since it was the first movie I saw in theatres at the time of its release.
This time around a couple of nitpicks bothered me.

1. Genesis is a "galactic controversy" with massive permits and security clearance required, yet Grissom can go study it alone, without any kind of tactical support?

2. I can partly understand why Admiral Morrow would reject Kirk's request to go back to Genesis. In Morrow's eyes, Kirk might have been a bit looped out after the extreme stress of the previous couple of weeks, not only the battle with Khan but the loss of his best friend.

But it wasn't just Kirk having a snit -- the same request also came from Ambassador Sarek, and Morrow knew it. After all, only one movie later, Sarek had enough clout to walk in on a public meeting between the Federation President and the Klingon Ambassador. You'd think that Sarek, at least, would have a high enough status that whatever he asked for, he could get -- even if Morrow didn't understand "Vulcan mysticism", wouldn't the fact that it's Sarek making the request be enough?

3. If part of Kirk's "mission" was first to go retrieve Spock's body -- what made them think there was a body to retrieve? At this point in the story only Grissom knew that the casket had soft-landed. As far as Kirk and Sarek knew, the torpedo burned up in the Genesis atmosphere and there wouldn't be a body to recover. (Incidentally, it was kind of creepy of David to actually open the casket, since he expected Spock's corpse would still be inside.)

 

[BillJ]

The Search for Spock is full of plot and logic holes but is damned fun to watch.

 

[22 Stars]

Love this movie!

 

[22 Stars]

And why didn't they just beam to the BOP at the end, and over take the few (or one) guy there, then simply beam up Spock and the others

 

[alpha_leonis]

And another thing!

This is not really a plot-hole, just a minor missed opportunity. At the end of TWOK, after the main events with Khan and Genesis had been completed, Kirk's log entry says they had gone back to Ceti Alpha V to pick up the stranded crew of the Reliant. At the beginning of TSFS, Kirk says that the trainee crew had been reassigned, but he said nothing about the Reliant crew -- so I'm assuming many of them stuck around and were helping keep the Enterprise functional on its way home.

One of those Reliant officers was Commander Kyle.

It would have been nice to have John Winston back for TSFS with another cameo; some throwaway scene where Kyle tells Kirk it's good to be back on the Enterprise. Maybe Kyle could have been the officer asking Kirk if there would be a reception when they got home (in place of the random officer who had never been seen before and would never be seen again.)

 

[IreneAdler]

TSFS is one of those movies that I turn the analytic side of my brain off when I watch. It's a fun movie, and there are a lot of great character development scenes.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

And another thing!

This is not really a plot-hole, just a minor missed opportunity. At the end of TWOK, after the main events with Khan and Genesis had been completed, Kirk's log entry says they had gone back to Ceti Alpha V to pick up the stranded crew of the Reliant. At the beginning of TSFS, Kirk says that the trainee crew had been reassigned, but he said nothing about the Reliant crew -- so I'm assuming many of them stuck around and were helping keep the Enterprise functional on its way home.

One of those Reliant officers was Commander Kyle.

It would have been nice to have John Winston back for TSFS with another cameo; some throwaway scene where Kyle tells Kirk it's good to be back on the Enterprise. Maybe Kyle could have been the officer asking Kirk if there would be a reception when they got home (in place of the random officer who had never been seen before and would never be seen again.)

While I wouldn't have minded John Winston back, I saw Philip Morris' cameo the same as I saw Christian Slater's cameo: It was cool seeing someone you didn't expect in a Trek film. Granted, Morris wasn't a big name then - his father was - but it's interesting to look back at his cameo.

 

[Franklin]

The Search for Spock is full of plot and logic holes but is damned fun to watch.

And another thing!

This is not really a plot-hole, just a minor missed opportunity. At the end of TWOK, after the main events with Khan and Genesis had been completed, Kirk's log entry says they had gone back to Ceti Alpha V to pick up the stranded crew of the Reliant. At the beginning of TSFS, Kirk says that the trainee crew had been reassigned, but he said nothing about the Reliant crew -- so I'm assuming many of them stuck around and were helping keep the Enterprise functional on its way home.

One of those Reliant officers was Commander Kyle.

It would have been nice to have John Winston back for TSFS with another cameo; some throwaway scene where Kyle tells Kirk it's good to be back on the Enterprise. Maybe Kyle could have been the officer asking Kirk if there would be a reception when they got home (in place of the random officer who had never been seen before and would never be seen again.)

Yeah. It's a rather contrived story full of conveniences, even going back to the end of TWOK where Spock is "buried at sea" out the torpedo tube and onto the Genesis planet to begin with. (Wouldn't they have notified Sarek of Spock's death first, and ask him what his wishes would be for Spock's body? And if they did, then wouldn't have Sarek mentioned what happened to Spock's katra then?)

However, the character moments in TSFS are great fun. The movie is far lighter in tone that the story would suggest. It gets an unfair break grouped in as part of the "odd numbered curse."

 

[Timo]

1. Genesis is a "galactic controversy" with massive permits and security clearance required, yet Grissom can go study it alone, without any kind of tactical support?

Sounds like a realistic compromise: sending something utterly inoffensive would be agreeable even to the paranoid Klingons, while sending nothing would antagonize UFP members who feel they really should be kept informed of projects like this.

The next logical step would have been to allow Klingons and Romulans to send their representatives as well. Perhaps Starfleet was able to argue that they first had to check whether Genesis was safe enough for the visitors?

This rather explains why even Sarek couldn't budge Starfleet. It's a delicate issue, but things will be moving forward eventually. Why rush? Sarek can go in after a few weeks if everything goes well.

If part of Kirk's "mission" was first to go retrieve Spock's body -- what made them think there was a body to retrieve?

Originally, Sarek thinks Spock's katra is in Kirk, and only worries about getting that back. But by the time they figure the katra is in McCoy, Grissom has already uncovered the existence of Spock's soft-landed coffin, and it stands to reason that Kirk and perhaps Sarek would have access to the report. Captain Esteban may be uptight, but Saavik would be motivated to let the report leak to Kirk and his friends, and so probably would David Marcus.

And why didn't they just beam to the BOP at the end, and over take the few (or one) guy there, then simply beam up Spock and the others

That wouldn't work too well: they would first have to lure out the Klingon boarding party, and after this party was on the Enterprise, the heroes no longer would be able to use the transporter to do anything. If the heroes beamed over to the BoP first, the Klingons would notice and overwhelm them; if the heroes tried to beam the Klingons to the Enterprise brig, this, too, would involve an uncooperative Klingon contingent rather than one lured to complacency.

This particular shell game has to be played with at least three cups, one of these being the planet below.

Wouldn't they have notified Sarek of Spock's death first, and ask him what his wishes would be for Spock's body? And if they did, then wouldn't have Sarek mentioned what happened to Spock's katra then?

Actually, I'd think Spock would have made a will. And it's not until ST4 that he reconciles with his father; until then, the will might well include orders to dispose of the body in such a fashion that Sarek couldn't get his emotionless fingers on it no matter how much he begged.

That Spock left a katra behind at all is the big mystery here. What did he hope to achieve? He knew his body would die; he probably knew his katra would make the host mad soon enough. Was he really thinking that Genesis would do what it eventually did?

Or did he merely assume that a Vulcan in his father's employ would come to collect at some point and put the katra in a jar? If so, then it's Sarek's fault that things get confusing, as it's daddy who believes that removal of the katra from McCoy should be combined with putting it back inside Spock's noggin. We know the old pervert has his idiosyncrasies, so this is not a completely unexpected turn of events...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Borjis]

"your planet....welcome!"

 

[SiddFinch1]

The Search for Spock is full of plot and logic holes but is damned fun to watch.

+1. Like the movie a lot but the plot has giant holes

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

While I wouldn't have minded John Winston back, I saw Philip Morris' cameo the same as I saw Christian Slater's cameo: It was cool seeing someone you didn't expect in a Trek film. Granted, Morris wasn't a big name then - his father was - but it's interesting to look back at his cameo.

Wasn't that him, here, also? That's kinda neat in itself...

 

[CorporalClegg]

TSFS is great right up to the Vulcan stuff. It really needed to be cut down. It's long. It's boring. And it's sooooo anticlimactic.

 

[diankra]

If part of Kirk's "mission" was first to go retrieve Spock's body -- what made them think there was a body to retrieve?

Originally, Sarek thinks Spock's katra is in Kirk, and only worries about getting that back. But by the time they figure the katra is in McCoy, Grissom has already uncovered the existence of Spock's soft-landed coffin, and it stands to reason that Kirk and perhaps Sarek would have access to the report. Captain Esteban may be uptight, but Saavik would be motivated to let the report leak to Kirk and his friends, and so probably would David Marcus.

Also, ISTR, McIntyre's novelisation adds an implication that the katra can only survive in another mind while the body still exists, and has to be transferred to the Hall of Ancient Thought before its destruction. Which is her explanation for Sarek's initial anger at Kirk, and their assumption that Spock's body must have survived once they realise the katra is in McCoy and influencing him.
We could possibly expand this to say that maybe the katra will still survive purely as memories if the body is destroyed, but the 'person' will not be there for transfer (or revival).

 

[trekshark]

(Incidentally, it was kind of creepy of David to actually open the casket, since he expected Spock's corpse would still be inside.)

maybe his tricorder wasn't registering a corpse so he decided to look?
a bit of a stretch maybe

 

[Shat Happens]

Grissom can go study it alone, without any kind of tactical support?

Probably the Mutara sector is friendly space. The heroes also went there unprepared for battle.

I am more interested in knowing why Grissom was full of explosives.

A Starfleet conspiracy? was Grissom remotely detonated in order to blame an alien Empire and make the political scenario escalate to war? How did the Genesis Data "leak" (could be intentional)? Have Adm. Cartwright already met General Chang in 2285? Why and how the human President (who had ignored all Klingon Empire requests and talked the Klingon Ambassador out of the Council session - see Star Trek IV) was replaced by the alien, (obviously politically weaker) in ST IV? Why Starfleet sent only one, non-operational vessel during the Nimbus III hijack? that official explanation "it was the only ship in range" was never proved.

I demand to know What was Admiral Marcus doing in this timeline? and Where was he?

 

[mos6507]

The story demands that Admiral Morrow deny Kirk's request (and to mothball the Enterprise prematurely in the first place--another plot-device). If he just allows Kirk to go, we are cheated out of Kirk and company being willing to effectively mutiny against Starfleet by stealing the Enterprise. The entire film revolves around the theme of "the needs of the one are greater than the needs of the many". In other words, the crew must sacrifice all their sacred cows, one-by-one, up to and including the Enterprise itself, what up to that point had been seen as Kirk's only true love.

You can argue that it could have been setup better, but the film would have been much weaker (and probably too short) without the hijack subplot.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

(Incidentally, it was kind of creepy of David to actually open the casket, since he expected Spock's corpse would still be inside.)

maybe his tricorder wasn't registering a corpse so he decided to look?
a bit of a stretch maybe

Maybe...but either way, that tube opened awfully easily!

 

[EnriqueH]

I always kinda wondered: if Genesis was a galactic controversy, why would they only send wimpy little Grissom without a bigger support? Then again, because it's controversial, maybe Starfleet was thinking that armed escorts would be deemed militaristic and intimidating. After all, if Starfleet has something as powerful as the Genesis torpedo, maybe they didn't want to create enemies.

ANYWAAAAY...

I absolutely ADORE Star Trek III. It was the SECOND movie I saw at the theater (after Return of the Jedi), and I've always loved it.

And it contains my favorite segment in the ENTIRE franchise: the stealing of the Enterprise.

I was around 9 years old, but I can still remember EXACTLY what I was feeling as the Enterprise exploded.

 

[Franklin]

I was around 9 years old, but I can still remember EXACTLY what I was feeling as the Enterprise exploded.

The Enterprise was given a worthy death scene. Even with today's FX technology, I wouldn't change a thing about how it was done.

This was the first Trek film where everyone was given something heroic to do, creating a precedent followed in every big screen Trek story after that.

It was also the first time we really saw a Trek crew act as family with feelings for each other. That feeling of family was in every Trek movie that followed, being especially strong in the two Abrams movies.