Just Started SNW RE: Uhura

[Sci]

Granted we only saw Jeff Hunter’s Pike in one episode, but what I saw of him was nothing like how Anson Mount portrays him. It’s like they are two completely different people.

I don't know. I've seen people in the depths of depression who seem like completely different folks than when they're out of it. I can buy that Anson Mount and Jeffrey Hunter are the same guy.

Really, none of the TOS-centric SNW characters act like their TOS counterparts.

Disagree -- for me it's a mixed bag in terms of "do these people feel like the TOS version." I think Celia Rose Gooding absolutely nails it as Uhura. I have no trouble believing that Babs Olusanmokun and Rebecca Romijn are M'Benga and Number One -- especially since the TOS versions of those characters were complete ciphers. But both Olusanmokun and Romijn bring a sense of command dignity to those characters that I think Booker Bradshaw and Majel Barrett brought on TOS.

I think we can all agree that Jess Bush's Christine Chapel is a very different version of that character than we saw in TOS. I for one absolutely do not give a shit, because the TOS version of Chapel is awful.

I have never really felt like Ethan Peck's Spock feels like the same character as Leonard Nimoy's Spock, but I've always enjoyed his version of the character so I suspend my disbelief.

Paul Wesley doesn't really have the sort of commanding presence and charisma that William Shatner has, but there again no one is Shatner but Shatner, so I let it go.

I don't have a strong enough sense of Martin Quinn's Scotty to know if they feel like the same character -- except to say that Quinn is just way, way too young. Scotty should be in his late 30s or early 40s by 2260 (James Doohan turned 40 in 1960; Quinn turns 30 this year). But, sometimes actors can transcend things like that, so I'll keep an open mind yet.

You can say ‘people change’ til the cows come home, but these are fictional people completely at the whim of the writers. If the writers wanted to write those character like they appeared in TOS, they could have done so.

I mean, yes and no? Sorry, but 1) these characters are all at a very different time in their lives, and 2) writing styles that were acceptable in 1966 are just not acceptable anymore. There is a level of depth demanded by modern television that TOS could never have matched because the conventions of television writing in the 1960s did not allow it.

And while I applaud them taking these characters in new directions, the idea (as Serveaux mentioned) that they will eventually ‘become’ the TOS crew, is pretty silly. I mean, who is rooting for SNW T’Pring to turn into a conniving bitch who wants Spock dead so she can shack up with Dull Guy?

I do agree that Gia Sandhu's T'Pring feels more compassionate than Arlene Martel's. But I don't really have a problem with the idea that T'Pring might become more cold-hearted as a result of anger at Spock's rejection.

 

[Mudd]

But... those are the characters.

Nope.

Those were the versions of the characters on TOS sixty years ago.

You cannot make all of the best-known versions of Sherlock Holmes, Dracula or a lot of other fantasy creations live together in one version of the thing (never mind someone like Tarzan, for God's sake. And then there's James Bond...). If all the original Trek characters are is what they were in 1969 or 1982, they'll be forgotten soon enough.

In many cases, the SNW people are fixing what was not very good about the originals. Christine and Uhura are two very successful examples. Even Spock, the best of them all, is better and more dimensional on SNW.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm REALLY hoping for a story that exposes her and M'Benga's lies about what happened to the Klingon, resulting in both of their careers stalling, Chapel being a nurse forever and M'Benga getting relegated to just a side doctor on the ship.

For someone insisting that things must follow exactly as they did in pre-established continuity, you seem to have forgotten that Chapel's career did not stall, nor did she stay a nurse forever. By TMP she became a doctor, and by TVH she was assigned to Starfleet Command.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Chapel being a nurse forever

Uh, nursing is a career. Often a life long career. Being a nurse "forever" is not a bad thing

 

[fireproof78]

Uh, nursing is a career. Often a life long career. Being a nurse "forever" is not a bad thing

Could even be realistic.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Except that we already know that Chapel gets an MD sometime between "Turnabout: Intruder" and TMP. And that she abandons a career in bio-research sometime between "Hegemony" and the first season of TOS, to return to nursing aboard the Enterprise.

 

[fireproof78]

Wonder how she felt being demoted for McCoy to return?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

There is nothing canonical to indicate that Chapel was ever "demoted for McCoy to return."

 

[fireproof78]

There is nothing canonical to indicate that Chapel was ever "demoted for McCoy to return."

Twas a joke.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Uhura vs Chapel is an interesting comparison. Gooding's version feels like someone growing into the character we know. She is cool, disciplined, and professional. That said, she is fleshed out, more multi dimensional. Bush's Chapel is vibrant and assertive, which is fine, but bears little resemblance to the classic character. Are we really supposed to believe she spent many years pining for Spock? In the end, I feel we didn't need an explanation for this aspect of TOS. I don't need an explanation of why someone couldn't get over an old flame and subsequently build healthy personal relationships.

 

[Mudd]

They're not doing it to "explain TOS;" that's a fig leaf. They're doing it to create stories about "vibrant, assertive" and otherwise fun-to-watch characters that are based in TOS.

It's not clear that most of the TOS characters ever developed "healthy personal relationships," but then, drama isn't based on those.

 

[evilchumlee]

Uh, nursing is a career. Often a life long career. Being a nurse "forever" is not a bad thing

To Chapel, it is. She has been established to have ambitions beyond being a nurse.

Although yes, she does eventually become an MD, so staying her career "stalled" as maybe an exaggeration. It took longer than she appears to have hoped for.

Nope.
Those were the versions of the characters on TOS sixty years ago.

You cannot make all of the best-known versions of Sherlock Holmes, Dracula or a lot of other fantasy creations live together in one version of the thing (never mind someone like Tarzan, for God's sake. And then there's James Bond...). If all the original Trek characters are is what they were in 1969 or 1982, they'll be forgotten soon enough.

The difference here, with the possible exception of James Bond*, is that those different version of characters are explicitly different versions. There is not a single continuity they exist in, they are each unique characters in their own right.

SNW, according to Paramount directly, is a direct prequel to TOS and TOS exists in the same universe as SNW does. Therefore, Uhura and Chapel *DO* become the TOS versions of Uhura and Chapel, according to the creators of the work.

*Bond is an odd one in that he may or may not be the same person throughout all the movies... the franchise tends to flop between suggesting there is a solid continuity of character to treating each iteration as a unique character.

There is nothing canonical to indicate that Chapel was ever "demoted for McCoy to return."

I'm sure that the joke response was in reference to my comment, to which I was referring to M'Benga, not Chapel.

M'Benga very much does get demoted from CMO to a staff doctor. We don't know WHY, could be any number of things, but I suspect SNW has planted a few seeds with M'Benga getting up to some seriously questionable activities.

 

[Tuskin38]

TOS is not real life, Star Trek is not a historical documentary, things do not need to line up 1:1.

It's all fiction, it's mutable.

 

[Nerys Myk]

To Chapel, it is. She has been established to have ambitions beyond being a nurse.

Although yes, she does eventually become an MD, so staying her career "stalled" as maybe an exaggeration. It took longer than she appears to have hoped for.

How so? She’s an MD at the start of TMP which takes place a couple of years after TOS. She moves up in rank throughout the rest of the films.

 

[fireproof78]

SNW, according to Paramount directly, is a direct prequel to TOS and TOS exists in the same universe as SNW does. Therefore, Uhura and Chapel *DO* become the TOS versions of Uhura and Chapel, according to the creators of the work.

Yep, and more power to them for it.

M'Benga very much does get demoted from CMO to a staff doctor. We don't know WHY, could be any number of things, but I suspect SNW has planted a few seeds with M'Benga getting up to some seriously questionable activities.

No.

He gets a different billet not a demotion, unless his rank changes.

 

[evilchumlee]

How so? She’s an MD at the start of TMP which takes place a couple of years after TOS. She moves up in rank throughout the rest of the films.

We're about 5 years away from TOS, where she is a nurse. TMP is about another 5 years from there.

She was a nurse for roughly twenty years or so before getting her MD, which is we take TAS into account, had to have happened in 2270.

There are other contextual factors though, so it could 100% NOT be the picture i'm painting. Chapel may not have originally actually wanted to be an MD... she was previously worked more in research, so MD may have been a later career change. She leaves Enterprise, gets married to Korby, and then eventually comes back after he disappears.

So she may not even have really pursued becoming an MD until she came back, 2265-66ish.

 

[fireproof78]

Which is a completely reasonable nursing career.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yep, and more power to them for it.

Right... agreed...

But it does jive with the two conversations.

"It's good that SNW is a prequel to TOS and TOS still happens" vs. "these characters are different from the TOS versions".

It's one or the other.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

M'Benga very much does get demoted from CMO to a staff doctor.

Assuming that there's only one M'Benga.

Even if the Writers' Guide says that's the case, it isn't canon until it's made explicit in a completed episode. Remember what the first-season TNG Writers' Guide said about Data's origins.

 

[fireproof78]

Right... agreed...

But it does jive with the two conversations.

"It's good that SNW is a prequel to TOS and TOS still happens" vs. "these characters are different from the TOS versions".

It's one or the other.

Well, no.

People change, at least in my experience. I think they're different from.where they will be in TOS but not different enough to say they are different people.

Mileage, etc.

Assuming that there's only one M'Benga.

Even if the Writers' Guide says that's the case, it isn't canon until it's made explicit in a completed episode. Remember what the first-season TNG Writers' Guide said about Data's origins.

No.

What?