Just seen the last episode... I'm outrage!
- Thread starter eezo
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I doubt even the most die-hard TNG fan would want TATV.
I can't speak for the other die-hard TNG fans but if Riker needed a history lesson to make up his mind, there'd be something seriously wrong.
Good to know there is evidence it's all a made-up piece of holodeck propaganda.
Bob
Still, it would make much more sense if it took place in an alternate reality in which the Pegasus fiasco happened a decade later than in TNG, a reality in which Riker and Troi are still stuck on Enterprise D with Picard (for what ever reason).Good to know there is evidence it's all a made-up piece of holodeck propaganda.
Of course, that's the reality in which the entire season four of ENT never happened, so it's safe to assume that the timeline branching occurred when Archer WASN'T brought back in time to fight Vosk or something.
So, as logic would dictate, TATV was entirely Daniels' fault.
Don't worry, no one person is to blame for the tides.
Hey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.
But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.
Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.
Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
The last Enterprise episode was "Terra Prime". What you watched was a TNG episode (and a BAD one) made 11 years after TNG was cancelled, with money from the 'Enterprise' production budget.
I always thought they should just remove the episode from the ENT Season 4 Blu-Rays (Soon to be released); and tack in on as an 'extra' to people buying the Season 7 TNG Blu-Rays; as they're probably the ONLY group that might find something watchable in the episode considering how Riker focused it is (aside from his weight.)
Why would you limit the comparison to Ent's seasons 1 and 2? They may not have shown any imagination in those first two, but season 3 of Ent took as many "chances" as DS9 did in it's entire 7 season run.
In season 3 we saw the first season long arc based on a single mission, a Vulcan take drugs (and become addicted) because she simply wanted to, an "emotional" Vulcan High Command, crewmembers being ejected into space through holes in the hull during battle. And though we have seen starships damaged and even crash, I don't recall any sight in Trek more arresting than watching the NX-01 listing, nose over nacelles out of control, and spouting smoke as in Azati Prime.
Oh, and we got our first nude scene in Trek in Ent's season 3. We have never seen a Trek series do what Ent did with it's cold openings.
Season 4 brought us the first Mirror Universe episodes that did not include real universe characters. There are probably more that I have forgotten.
When it came to taking chances, Ent took a backseat to none of the other three spinoffs.
Go back and read the sentence again. I said Enterprise's first two seasons were safe and predictable and thus bland and boring. I excluded seasons 3 and 4 because they at least tried something. Personally I think the Xindi arc had way too many filler episodes, wanted to facepalm at space Nazi's, thought the Romulan super remote ship was silly at best and let's not even go to TATV.. but they made the effort to do something and most of the series' good episodes came from those seasons. Sad thing was the damage was done and most people(myself included at the time of the original airing) had already given up on it in the first two seasons.
I did. I don't know what you meant, but what you actually wrote compares all of DS9 and it's 7 seasons of "taking chances" to all of TNG, Voy, but inexplicably, only the first two seasons of Ent. Sounds like you're cherry picking to make DS9 look like the only one of the spins that took chances when in reality, Ent took more chances than any of the spins and TOS too for that matter. If you compare DS9 to all of Ent (as opposed to just the first two seasons), there is no way Ent could not be seen as at least as innovative as DS9 if not outright more innovative.
Right, we know that now, but that's not what your "sentence" (nor the rest of your original post) stated. If it had, I wouldn't have felt the need to respond.
Um yes, but what does any of this have to do with taking, or not taking chances (which is the subject at hand)?
FWIW I understood R. Star's meaning just fine. It was a contrast between DS9 and the other series. He didn't include the latter two seasons of ENT because he didn't consider them a contrast worth noting. I.e. while TNG, etc. did things one way, DS9 and later ENT didn't.
Hey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.
But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.
Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
I couldn't disagree more, DS9s first 2 seasons had episodes likeHey, DS9 certainly had it's clunkers and face palm moments. Little gremlins and Quark in drag are certainly two of the big ones.
But I'll take that knowing that hey at least DS9 was willing to take chances, and is making the effort as opposed to TNG sticking to the same formula, Voyager staying safe by not straying too far from it either, and ENT's first two seasons where things were just cheap imitations.
Yes, Neelix is the ultimate example of the annoying character. DS9 at least improved their annoying character when they realized the fans weren't liking Bashir. When confronted with the fans not liking Neelix, it's like Voyager's staff said... "Screw you! Here's -more- Neelix!"
Folks can say what they like about Enterprise, but ENT seasons 1 & 2 were stronger that both VOY and DS9 seasons 1 & 2. Especially DS9's.
Captive Pursuit
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Profit and Loss
Blood Oath
The Maquis two parter
The Wire
Crossover
The Jem'Hadar
Which are all better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons. I would also say that VOYs
Phage
Eye of the Needle
Projections
Meld
Death Wish
The Thaw
Are better then any ENT episode from the first 2 seasons.
Yanks is entitled his opinion. I can't say I share it mind, and I also would really have a hard time picking an episode from the first two seasons of Enterprise that stood out. I guess the Andorian Incident was pretty good and I liked the minor bit of continuity between Minefield and Dead Stop.
I do think the first 2 seasons are pretty consistent but unfortunately they're consistently average, nothing really terrible but nothing really great either.
I was so enamored with being on a space station that the somewhat directionless first two seasons of DS9 were enchanting to me.
The best episodes were In a Mirror Darkly....Or the episode where Archer is transported 400 years in the future to see the "Enterprise J ship" and told about the Temporal Wars and the Federation
I love the future, I wish we got to see the far distant future more often. Enough with all this cowboys and Victorian era sentiment. We saw the future in VOY's Relativity and ENT's Azati Prime. Did we see it any other time? The future as in purportedly mankind's future some centuries hence, not just a series of alternate realities.
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