Oh, that sounds FUN! It was a real kick when they had all the regular alien characters on DS9 appear without their makeup in "Far Beyond The Stars."
Just finished the Babylon 5 series run, some random observations
- Thread starter sonak
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Oh, that sounds FUN! It was a real kick when they had all the regular alien characters on DS9 appear without their makeup in "Far Beyond The Stars."
Centauri ambassador "Garabaldo"? 
Fascinating stuff. "Dream Within a Dream" sound like it might have been a good one, a shame it was to complicated for the network to comprehend (which is what they really mean when they say "the viewers will be confused.") I like the irony that it would have meant that Jerry Doyle would've gotten to wear a wig.
Just so I can properly cite all this, which volume and if possible, page numbers of the script books are these memos from?
I was at the San Diego Comic Con B5 panel the summer before the series-proper premiered. The panel had JMS, Michael O'Hare, Jerry Doyle, Andrea Thompson and Harlan Ellison.
Joe mentioned the "Demon on the Run" script. To which Harlan told a story about how Culp called him about hearing rumors of a sequel and that he'd better be playing the role again. Harlan said, "I told Culp to shut up and that no one else can play the role and we'll call your agent."
Joe then suggest that Culp's son could also take on the role. Seemed they were pretty serious about the script. If it was a joke, then it was also on fans not just Harlan. And if so, then Harlan was in on it at the time.
Honestly, I think it's just back peddling on Harlan's and Joe's part.
Thanks for that, I've incorporated all of that into the article.
There's still a few episode I can't find much info on aside from the titles: -
"Expectations" by David Gerrold, "The Commander's Hour" by JMS and "The Mysterious Mr. Jones", also by JMS.
I rather suspect "The Commander's Hour" might be an earlier title for "The Very Long Night of Susan Ivanova, but I can't find any confirmation one way or the other. I do however wonder if there's any link between "The Mysterious Mr. Jones" and the "Mr. Jones" that showed up in Crusade...of course that was in a Fiona Avery script so perhaps not.
I'm also having a go at scraping together a much more coherent article on TMoS and am in the process of checking sources. One thing I can't seam to verify however is the claim that Steve Beck was hired on as director. That little bit on information crops up on wikipdia and the Lurker's Guide but I can't find where it came from. Anyone know what I missed?
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I've always wondered if "The Commander's Hour" might have been a forerunner to the same tradition that Capt. Gideon mentioned to Matheson in an early draft of "The Path of Sorrows" where
Matthew Gideon said:
As for Mr. Jones, I asked if it was the same sort of character in B5 as in Crusade and he replied:
JMS said:
I found an old post over at the JMSnews.com forums that led to an article containing:
Unfortunately the PW weekly link is long dead.
Jan
I don't think Joe ever said it was a joke; just that the show didn't end up having time to do the episode because of various circumstances. This is in one of the memos (Volume 2, memo "Premises in Development" no date):
jms said:
On the Mysterious Mr. Jones there's a bit in that same memo just mentioned:
And there's a character description in the season one bible that talks about his relationships to the other characters that has an interesting bit:jms said:
jms said:
I think that's likely. Also from that memo:
I have no idea what Expectations is.jms said:
Thanks Jan and JoeD80, all that has been integrated into the article as best I can. Most of them now have at least a vague description, though there's still a few blanks.
Just to see where the tally lies: "Expectations" as JoeD80 says remains a total mystery and I can only really find reference to it on the Lurker's Guide (while that's usually reliable, it's not a primary source) and the only thing I can find out about the other David Gerrold scripts "Metaphors and Body Counts" and "Target: Unknown" is that they were put back to season 2 before being ditched and that they were both retitled at some point.
As previously discussed it appears possible that "Target: Unknown" could have been retitled to "Expectations" and "Metaphors and Body Counts" became that horrible "Laser Mirror Starweb" comic, but as tidy as that would be, I'm not about to present a theory as fact. Indeed, if the Lurker's Guide has taught us anything it's that even presenting a theory will mean that some people will eventually take it as fact regardless.
Now, before I go rooting for more TMoS data, what do we know about "Wars of the Mind"?
Just to see where the tally lies: "Expectations" as JoeD80 says remains a total mystery and I can only really find reference to it on the Lurker's Guide (while that's usually reliable, it's not a primary source) and the only thing I can find out about the other David Gerrold scripts "Metaphors and Body Counts" and "Target: Unknown" is that they were put back to season 2 before being ditched and that they were both retitled at some point.
As previously discussed it appears possible that "Target: Unknown" could have been retitled to "Expectations" and "Metaphors and Body Counts" became that horrible "Laser Mirror Starweb" comic, but as tidy as that would be, I'm not about to present a theory as fact. Indeed, if the Lurker's Guide has taught us anything it's that even presenting a theory will mean that some people will eventually take it as fact regardless.
Now, before I go rooting for more TMoS data, what do we know about "Wars of the Mind"?
Totally agree. People seem to want their heroes to be heroes and not human (or Minbari, in this case
). What Lennier did was believable to me - and it made the character more interesting. (This is a similar issue to the eternal Valeris/Saavik discussion. I am of the opinion that TUC would've been a lot stronger had Valeris been Saavik as originally planned, but many would no doubt have seen that as the ultimate character assassination.)
It would have been very -interesting- if it had been Saavik, but I think they would have needed to spend a substantial amount of time explaining how someone who previously had been so loyal to Our Heroes would so thoroughly go against them. In a movie the length of TUC I have to doubt that this could have been done credibly.
It may not have been character assassination, but it certainly would have forever marred everyone's opinion of the character.
I think it would have needed to be made very explicitly clear that Saavik never intended or expected for Kirk and McCoy to actually beam over to Kronos One and subsequently get sent to Rura Penthe.
On the plus side, a very minor opportunity for redemption, and a way to excise a controversial sequence...Saavik could give up the suspects' names willingly instead of having Spock mind-meld with her, and perhaps somehow prove essential to Our Heroes reaching Khitomer.
It may not have been character assassination, but it certainly would have forever marred everyone's opinion of the character.
I think it would have needed to be made very explicitly clear that Saavik never intended or expected for Kirk and McCoy to actually beam over to Kronos One and subsequently get sent to Rura Penthe.
On the plus side, a very minor opportunity for redemption, and a way to excise a controversial sequence...Saavik could give up the suspects' names willingly instead of having Spock mind-meld with her, and perhaps somehow prove essential to Our Heroes reaching Khitomer.
Yeah, what didn't make sense wasn't Saavik being in on the conspiracy. What wouldn't make sense would be her betraying Kirk like that and getting him sent to Rura Pente, especially since her motive would be getting back at the Klingons for David's death. With Kirk's attitude, what would've made more sense would've been her trying to recruit Kirk.
Having Saavik back might have helped the "Whodunit?" parts of the plot as well, in that people familiar with Saavik might be a bit surprised by her appearance but would, I think, tend to resist the notion that she'd do anything so completely underhanded.
When Valeris is given such focus even though we've never seen her before, it's pretty obvious she has something to do with the problems that occur. See also the movie adaptation of "Goblet of Fire" which suffered a great deal by removing "non-essential" characters.
When Valeris is given such focus even though we've never seen her before, it's pretty obvious she has something to do with the problems that occur. See also the movie adaptation of "Goblet of Fire" which suffered a great deal by removing "non-essential" characters.
I always assumed that David from "Legend of the Rangers" was the son of Sheridan and Delenn. They knew he would be a target so for his protection he was raised by people they trusted, given a different last name and not told of his true lineage. In the movie the way G"Kar(who would have been one of the people entrusted with his true identity) intervened on his behalf and shot those glances of, you're more important than you know, sort of gave it away. I haven't read any of the books so I don't know if that has been talked about.
That's not a bad theory, although the books do contradict it. We do see things onscreen that would preclude Martel being David Sheridan, too.
- In Sleeping in Light, Delenn tells Ivanova that David isn't there because they wanted him to remember his father the way he had been, not as he was as he died.
- David Sheridan would have been born in 2262 and given the urn when he was 16 years old in 2278. That matches with what Delenn told the time-flashed Sheridan in the cell on Centauri Prime that "our son is safe".
- In the Lost Tales, Sheridan mentions that his son is nine years old and could use someone who could be an older brother to him.
...so it can be assumed from those that David was raised by Delenn & Sheridan.
While it's not determined onscreen that I remember, JMS has said that the Rangers movie was set just under three years after the events of "Objects at Rest".
Jan
- In Sleeping in Light, Delenn tells Ivanova that David isn't there because they wanted him to remember his father the way he had been, not as he was as he died.
- David Sheridan would have been born in 2262 and given the urn when he was 16 years old in 2278. That matches with what Delenn told the time-flashed Sheridan in the cell on Centauri Prime that "our son is safe".
- In the Lost Tales, Sheridan mentions that his son is nine years old and could use someone who could be an older brother to him.
...so it can be assumed from those that David was raised by Delenn & Sheridan.
While it's not determined onscreen that I remember, JMS has said that the Rangers movie was set just under three years after the events of "Objects at Rest".
Jan
Seasons 1-2 for me; after that it became narrow and tedious.
Best: Tie between Seasons 3 and 4.
Second best: Tie between Season 2 and 5.
Worst: Season 1.
Second best: Tie between Season 2 and 5.
Worst: Season 1.
For me, Season 1 was somewhat dry but the first time through, I still enjoyed the story that was being told. Season 2 was the shows "coming out' into excellent Sci-Fi and Season 3-4 are some of the finest examples of Sci-Fi stoytelling ever seen on TV. Season 5 was a pretty big letdown for the most part until the end of the Season.
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