Just a television show...

[darkwing_duck1]

The Producers werent too keen on it either.

Then why the frak did they do it?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Producers werent too keen on it either.

Then why the frak did they do it?

They have bosses. The Network and/or the Studio wanted it. And those guys are the real "Powers that be".

 

[Myko]

All time travel movies have the same goddamn plot hole, if you fail with your time travel shenanigans the first time, just do it again. Trek IV gets a pass cause it's a flimsy comedy, but Generations and First Contact are terrible in this regard.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

The Producers werent too keen on it either.

Then why the frak did they do it?

They have bosses. The Network and/or the Studio wanted it. And those guys are the real "Powers that be".

Are you seriously saying that PARAMOUNT ordered the TCW over the Killer Bs' objections?

 

[Myko]

Braga wrote time travel or weird anomalies into everything he did, didn't he?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then why the frak did they do it?

They have bosses. The Network and/or the Studio wanted it. And those guys are the real "Powers that be".

Are you seriously saying that PARAMOUNT ordered the TCW over the Killer Bs' objections?

Yes, that is what I have heard. Why are you suprised? Networks and studios have control over the shows and properties they own. B&B were hired to do a job. My way or the highway as the saying goes. They chose "my way."

 

[Captain Robert April]

Braga said in the "making of" featurette on the Season One set that the network wanted something "futuristic" and pretty much forced the TCW on them. He was rather dismayed that a 22nd Century starship going out into uncharted space wasn't considered futuristic enough, but they were the ones cutting the checks, so...

He also stated that the TCW probably would've worked better as its own show, but them's the breaks.

 

[CaptainStoner]

All time travel movies have the same goddamn plot hole, if you fail with your time travel shenanigans the first time, just do it again. Trek IV gets a pass cause it's a flimsy comedy, but Generations and First Contact are terrible in this regard.

That's not that bad a plot hole. I think there is a VOY 2-parter that shows that simply going back and resetting isn't the simple fix it appears.
In STIV, they were able to time-warp, but very nearly destroyed their ship in the process. Most of the time-travel episodes involve non-repeatable, or reliably repeatable, time travel. Jumping through the gate based on Spock's guess lands you +/- several weeks.

Back the the OP. I appreciate your topics Warped9. I think BrutalStrudel hit the nail on the head early on. TOS was an ambitous, artfully rendered series that took chances and succeeded boldly and also fell on its face on occasion.
I don't have the data to know whether other revered TV shows mentioned have the cross-cultural, international impact of TOS.
While other classic shows speak to humanity through various modes - Cheers, Mash, and on and on....one thing TOS possesses in an unusual concentration is the spirit of aspiration. I don't necessarily see that in other classic shows. It's therefore only logical to see that spirit of aspiration is what led to the inspiring quality of TOS. There have been a lot of great shows, but how many inspire?
It is sometimes said that Roddenberry's genius was in capturing lightning in a bottle. This implies the lighting was already there, and that his accomplishment was in putting its elements together, through skill, determination, and luck. There is a humanistic element to his accomplishment then, because he wasn't the all-encompassing genius. It happened through the efforts of many, guided by several Captains.
The hopeful thing about this is that the lighting was always there, and continues to be present. And that we all have access to it. It's not just in the past, in TOS.

 

[xortex]

The lightning is there but there will never be another convergance of it because of greed. Altruism died a quick death.

 

[CaptainStoner]

The lightning is there but there will never be another convergance of it because of greed. Altruism died a quick death.

I don't think it's that simple. What did every TOS actor say about getting the job? "At last, a steady paycheck!" Now there is quite a difference between fair pay and greed, but are the motivations of a studio today that different than they were back then? Or of actors?
To say something will never happen is to invoke it.

 

[Kirk1980]

The lightning is there but there will never be another convergance of it because of greed. Altruism died a quick death.

I don't think it's that simple. What did every TOS actor say about getting the job? "At last, a steady paycheck!" Now there is quite a difference between fair pay and greed, but are the motivations of a studio today that different than they were back then? Or of actors?
To say something will never happen is to invoke it.

I think Xortex is commenting more on society.

We're no longer of a 'space, the final frontier' mindset. We seem, as a people, more bogged down with the bull**** of this world more and more...

 

[plynch]

but are the motivations of a studio today that different than they were back then?

I think there is a difference between Trek 1964 and now.

GR was a writer who wanted a vehicle through which to tell stories. He DID channel a lot of already-present things, both sci-fi and in the general culture. (And of course, as noted, others contributed and shaped it. But it began as a personal calling, I believe.)

Now Star Trek is a brand a corporation owns through which it attempts to increase shareholder value. It hires people to do this, who do want to do a good job, I believe. But there's a difference.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Found it.

Gene Roddenberry, 1976:

"I think probably the most often asked question about the show is: Why the Star Trek Phenomenon?. And it could be an important question because you can ask: How can a simple space opera with blinking lights and zap-guns and a hobgoblin with pointy ears reach out and touch the hearts and minds of literally millions of people, and become a cult in some cases?

Obviously, what this means is, that television has incredible power. They're saying that if a Star Trek can do this, then perhaps another carefully calculated show could move people in other directions. What's to keep selfish interests from creating other cults for selfish purposes, industrial cartels, political parties, governments?

Ultimate power in this world, as you know, has always been one simple thing: the control and manipulation of minds.

Fortunately, any attempt, however, to manipulate people through any so called "Star Trek Formula" is doomed to failure, and I'll tell you why in just a moment.

First of all, our show did not reach and affect all these people because it was deep and great literature. Star Trek was not Ibsen or Shakespeare. To get a prime time show, a network show, on the air and to keep it there, you must attract and hold a minimum of 18 million people every week. You have to do that in order to move people away from Gomer Pyle, Bonanza, Beverly Hillbillies, and so on. And we tried to do this with entertainment, action, adventure, conflict and so on.

But once we got on the air, and within the limits of those action-adventure limits, we did not accept the myth that the television audience has an infantile mind. We had an idea, and we had a premise, and we still believe that.

As a matter of fact we decided to risk the whole show on that premise. We believed that the often ridiculed mass audience is sick of this world’s petty nationalisms and all it's old ways and old hatreds, and that people are not only willing but anxious to think beyond those petty beliefs that have for so long kept mankind divided.

So you see that the formula, the magic ingredient, that many people keep seeking, and many of them keep missing, is really not in Star Trek, it is in the audience. There is an intelligent life form out on the other side of that television tube!

The whole show was an attempt to say that humanity will reach maturity and wisdom on the day that it begins not just to tolerate, but to take a special delight in differences in ideas and differences in life forms. We tried to say that the worst possible thing that can happen to all of us is for the future to somehow press us into a common mold, where we begin to act and talk and look and think alike. If we cannot learn to actually enjoy those small differences, take a positive delight in those small differences between our own kind here on this planet, then we do not deserve to go out into space and meet the diversity that is almost certainly out there.

And I think that this is what people responded to.

The result of that was that seven years after being dropped by the network of saying those things, there are now more people watching it than ever before. And if you ascribe those things to any mystic or scriptural brilliance in Star Trek, you miss the entire point. For Star Trek proves, as faulty as individual episodes could be, is that the much-maligned common man and common woman has an enormous hunger for brotherhood. They are ready for the 23rd century now, and they are light-years ahead of their petty governments and their visionless leaders!"

 

[Chrisisall]

X-actly! thanks Cap'n!!!

 

[Hober Mallow]

Interesting that Roddenberry sets the date of Star Trek in the 23rd Century. Is this the earliest known reference to the 23rd Century? It's the earliest I've seen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Some of the bits by Roddenberry in TMoST mentions the 23rd Century in an off the cuff manner.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The eventual canonical establishment of the 23rd century as Kirk's era followed a widespread (though not universal) fannish assumption that this was so. Perhaps the genesis of that assumption was GR's remarks in TMOST.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Interesting that Roddenberry sets the date of Star Trek in the 23rd Century. Is this the earliest known reference to the 23rd Century? It's the earliest I've seen.

Could be. First movie was still in the works at that point, so unless there was a hard and fast reference in TAS, this could be it.

 

[jtkirk]

It's more than just another television show to me. Shows like "Friends", "Frasier", "The Six Million Dollar Man", "Charlies Angels", while enjoyable are just another television show. I was such a big "Six Million Dollar Man" fan when i was a kid, but for me it didn't stand the test of time..."Star Trek TOS" is a good show on so many levels & it has stood the test of time.

For me there have only been 2 truly amazing shows that transcend being merely another tv show, they are...

I Love Lucy
Star Trek TOS

There are several others that come close, like "Seinfeld", "Twilight Zone", "Farscape".

 

[Hober Mallow]

IMO, Star Trek was always at its worst when it pretended to be more than just a television show. Remember that UPN special gala event where the casts of all the series gathered together for a big pat on the back in the style of an Academy Award show? It was that special where the cast of Frasier did a skit with Kate Mulgrew. What an embarrassment. For me that was the moment when Trek jumped the shark. To act like Star Trek is the second coming is to really turn it into, as Shatner said on SNL, a colossal waste of time.

Yes, Trek is just a TV show. A really good TV show, but a TV show nontheless.