R. Daneel Olivaw (in the beginning) is the most handsome 30 year old man in the universe.
Who is that these days?
Who is that these days?
Jonathan Nolan developing Asimov's Foundation to HBO
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Hmmm, yeah, I quite like that approach, actually. I mean, they don't have to proceed with it in linear fashion in terms of exposition. I agree about Earth, but at least the prequels were better than came before them, so I'm grateful we those to go on rather than ending on a sour note.
Have you read Psychohistorical Crisis by Donald Kingsbury? I guess the guy wanted to write his own story but wasn't able to get permission from the Asimov estate, so he ended up writing an unauthorized sequel set after the Second Empire. His take on it was quite fascinating and was published around the same time as the trilogy by the 3B's.
For a television series, here's what I think I'd do...
The first season riffs on "The Encyclopedists" and "The Mayors." Basically, the early years of Terminus, the rise of Salvor Hardin, and the first two Selden crises.
We skip "The Traders" entirely; it's the worst Foundation story by some distance.
The second season tackles "The Merchant Princes" and "The General."
The third season tackles "The Mule" and "Search by the Mule."
The fourth season tackles "Search by the Foundation." And at this point, I'd go off the rails a bit; invent a fourth century FE post-Mule Selden crisis and actually show that psychohistory is back on track. Foundation's Edge shows us the aftermath of one, but let's actually see one.
Fifth season tackles Foundation's Edge. And I think you can stop there.
And, I don't think the television series should limit itself to what's on the page. A lot of Foundation is talky stuff about big things happening elsewhere. A television series is going to have to dramatize a lot of that. "Show, don't tell" and all that rot. Hence, my use of the word "riff." Use Asimov as the starting point, and adapt it to fit the medium.
I like how you lay out the saga I here with one exception. I take issued with whether the Traders is good Foundation stuff (I think it is just fine) but IMHO it would make some of the best TV, and has the potential to give us the Dark Hero type(s) inherent in so many series. To Christopher's point of "core idea and then take liberties," whether they use Gorov or Ponyet or The Grand Master, or even the setting of Askone, "The Traders" would be a good writers breeding ground for Character, and Action, for that matter.
And I think Christopher has good things to say, also. It is just, as I said, that I am sure many of us have a version of "The Movie" in our heads, and would want it to unfold just that way. Guy sort of said it in one of his posts above about being disappointed in what transferred to film, vs. What is in our brains. However, I am VERY excited, and hope the whole thing comes out in my lifetime!!!
Boy, do I hear you with this point, Guy but that would be a difficult proposition. Rather than write new shit, they are taking the old shit and making movies with it because it cheaper and because it is easier. Plus, as I said above and in some other Posts, I have had a Foundation Series movie running in my head for more than 40 years now, since I read the fuckers! And it is a pretty god damned good movie. I would hate to be disappointed and get fucked over my someone else's vision.
Wow. You and I have GOT to sit down and have a beer or some shit! Wow!
IMHO, there are NO handsome 30-year olds. They are too young. They can only be "pretty" or "good-looking."
Ya gotta EARN handsome, like Connery did!
Brosnan is still doing ok when he is all prettied up.
Clooney? Beckham? Bardem?
Lotta people like that Pattinson fucker, but, shit, pick ME over him!!!
Yeah, but the only way to get the version you imagine is to be the one actually making it. The version in your head will be there every time you read the book. But if you go to a movie or watch a TV series that someone else made, then you're seeing the version in their head, or at least an approximation of it. And the contrast between the two can be interesting.
I watched season 3 of Battlestar Galactica a couple days ago, where I was amazed how consistently cigarettes coloured so many scenes. In Issac Asimov's future, just like the 1940s, everyone smokes. I have to wonder if this affectation will be allowed by HBO since it's not cool any more to promote the hobby.
They will have something futuristic like e-ciggies or like here where I am with the
Shi-Sha (water pipe) or some apparatus like in Chalmun's Cantina at the Mos Eisley spaceport. But they will NOT have cigarettes.
Unless they film at Sverdlovsk Film Studio in Russia.
Ha!
Shi-Sha (water pipe) or some apparatus like in Chalmun's Cantina at the Mos Eisley spaceport. But they will NOT have cigarettes.
Unless they film at Sverdlovsk Film Studio in Russia.
Ha!
Is there some rule or law beyond common decency?
The FCC has no power over HBO.
The FCC has no power over HBO.
No they're not?
The Federal Communications Commission can fine any network TV Show into the stone age if rules are broken, but Nielson is a privately owned company independent of any one to assure accurate unmolested data.
Cable stations have their ratings determined independently by the cable boxes measured in house holds even if they don't know the actual composition of those households, and cable stations have limited to no advertising, that really ratings don't matter so much as renewed constant subscriptions and sport/movie pay per view events.
The Federal Communications Commission can fine any network TV Show into the stone age if rules are broken, but Nielson is a privately owned company independent of any one to assure accurate unmolested data.
Cable stations have their ratings determined independently by the cable boxes measured in house holds even if they don't know the actual composition of those households, and cable stations have limited to no advertising, that really ratings don't matter so much as renewed constant subscriptions and sport/movie pay per view events.
Sorry, we are kinda talking about two different things. "Movies" and the state laws in the US that would make it very difficult to show people smoking in movies because of restrictions on "place." It is true what you say about cable, but I was talking about big screen movies for "Foundation" and the re strict ions and roadblocks to showing people smoking. Not impossible, but very difficult and maybe difficult enough for the producers to say "fuck it" or get around it with some futuristic or different enough representation as to circumvent the hassle. I just do not see it as such an essential plot device, however! But ya never know.
They don't have to use "real cigarettes".
If non tobacco, non weed... Actually, now that weed is becoming so entirely legal in the states do the "smoking laws" in public refer to the creation of "any sort of smoke" or just the strict use of tobacco?
What are the passive second hand smoke effects from a third party burning oregano in cigarette form?
If non tobacco, non weed... Actually, now that weed is becoming so entirely legal in the states do the "smoking laws" in public refer to the creation of "any sort of smoke" or just the strict use of tobacco?
What are the passive second hand smoke effects from a third party burning oregano in cigarette form?
Now THAT is one hell of an insightful question, and may I say I am enjoying this conversation with you. My bet is that the ACT of smoking would fall under the perview of the ratings and local laws as we were discussing above. The CONTENT of the smoke would be the concern of child labor laws, for example, if a minor was seen smoking, or local criminal statutes. But, as you mentioned above, if we are talking about HBO or STARZ or the like, I would imagine the only thing keeping them from just about any content would be decency laws and what they think they could get people to watch!?!?
Child labour laws?
That sounds familiar.
Smoking isn't important.
In the books, it's jarring that they smoke on space ships because the science is so bad. It's so bad that it's good. Also it's more than clear that the story was written in the 1940s which makes their ignorance about the threat of cancer adorable.
Death sticks?
Star Wars. Wookiepedia says that they are an opiate, not tobacco.
Is it possible that cigarettes in Asimov's future are not only healthy but medicinal?
Remind me, was there a lot of smoking on Space Station 76?
That sounds familiar.
Smoking isn't important.
In the books, it's jarring that they smoke on space ships because the science is so bad. It's so bad that it's good. Also it's more than clear that the story was written in the 1940s which makes their ignorance about the threat of cancer adorable.
Death sticks?
Star Wars. Wookiepedia says that they are an opiate, not tobacco.
Is it possible that cigarettes in Asimov's future are not only healthy but medicinal?
Remind me, was there a lot of smoking on Space Station 76?
There would be no problem with showing smoking in a TV series or movie, but I'd rather they didn't. That's one change to the source material I wouldn't object to.
Another option for a Foundation series would be to pick up where Foundation and Earth left off and focus on the team of Trevize, Pelorat, and Bliss-- who I always felt were Asimov's homage to Flash Gordon-- with Daneel either tagging along or serving as Charlie to their Angels. The storyline could focus on the conflict between Daneel's beginning to implement plans for Galaxia versus Trevize's desire to undo his own decision (with Bliss taking Daneel's side). Asimov felt that he had written himself into a corner at that point, but there's one very obvious way out and I'm sure that I, or any other good writer, could think of more.
Another option for a Foundation series would be to pick up where Foundation and Earth left off and focus on the team of Trevize, Pelorat, and Bliss-- who I always felt were Asimov's homage to Flash Gordon-- with Daneel either tagging along or serving as Charlie to their Angels. The storyline could focus on the conflict between Daneel's beginning to implement plans for Galaxia versus Trevize's desire to undo his own decision (with Bliss taking Daneel's side). Asimov felt that he had written himself into a corner at that point, but there's one very obvious way out and I'm sure that I, or any other good writer, could think of more.
Yeah, that's a fantastic book. Everybody should read that one.
One of the things I really liked about Nolan's Interstellar was how inhuman the robot was in appearance.
I kept thinking that it was one of Clarke's Monoliths.
I kept thinking that it was one of Clarke's Monoliths.
Hmmm...smoking as a healthy habit. Why not. Bet we could tweak that here and make a zillion dollars or so. And there was indeed smoking on SS 76. One of the consoles had its very one cigarette lighter. Eesh.
I like your comparison to Flash and Co., but first I want F, FE, and 2nd F! Just like a little kid, I am, wanting it all.
Yeah, I see that. Or like some of the Industrial Street Sculpture we have in Downtown Chicago.
I've been meaning to. I started it, packed it away and moved, and when I moved again seven years later I found the book. But I haven't moved it onto my "to be read" pile. Right now, I'm struggling with Jennifer Pournelle's Outies, the newest book in Niven & Pournelle's The Mote in God's Eye sequence.
I had a drunken episode where I thought I was inside the first book.
Best New Years ever?
What a Cheeky monkey.
She published under J R Pournell, so that maybe people could get through the whole thing with out realizing that she's not her own dad.
Extreme crossdressing!
Best New Years ever?
What a Cheeky monkey.
She published under J R Pournell, so that maybe people could get through the whole thing with out realizing that she's not her own dad.
Extreme crossdressing!
And I think Christopher has good things to say, also. It is just, as I said, that I am sure many of us have a version of "The Movie" in our heads, and would want it to unfold just that way. Guy sort of said it in one of his posts above about being disappointed in what transferred to film, vs. What is in our brains. However, I am VERY excited, and hope the whole thing comes out in my lifetime!!!
Oh, no doubt! It's a feeling that's only amplified by having it take this long to get to this point, wherein our brains have likely been on overdrive playing it over in our heads
So, for that very reason, part of me feels very reserved, yet still very excited. It's the same sort of reason why while I aboslutely adore Buzz Aldrin's Encounter with Tiber, I feel a little anxiety over the upcoming adaptation of it for the screen. But at the same time, it's such a great story that I feel more people should be exposed to it.
Hope you eventually get back to it then! It's quite a good book that ended up giving Asimov's universe quite a bit of depth. It's a shame he didn't get the official nod from the estate regarding it, as it was quite ambitious.